Repair That Lasts: How to Fix Concrete Countertops and Protect Your Craft
“Repairing a concrete countertop isn’t just patchwork - it’s craftsmanship that protects your reputation and shows clients you stand behind every pour.” - Brandon Gore
Every maker knows the sinking feeling of getting a call about a chip in a concrete piece you poured your heart into. This week on The Concrete Podcast, we focus on how to bring damaged countertops and sinks back to life - and why a solid repair is about more than just patching concrete. It’s about protecting your reputation, honoring your craft, and proving to clients that you stand behind your work.
We’ll share step-by-step insights for repairing the piece. You’ll also hear how Kodiak Pro’s silica-free mixes and non-toxic sealers give artisans a dependable way to achieve flawless, lasting results that build trust with every job.
#ConcretePodcast #ConcreteRepair #FixConcrete #CraftsmanshipMatters #MakersMindset #kodiakpro #CountertopRepair #ArtisanLife #CreativeGrowth #gfrc
*I removed the backgrounds to protect the identity of the artisan who created these pieces. This isn’t about criticizing anyone’s work - it’s a reminder of how much the right materials and methods matter.
TRANSCRIPT:
0:15
Hello Jon Schuler.
Hello, Brandon Gore.
Man, it's been a hell of a week, hasn't it?
A few weeks, right?
All kinds of yeah, yeah.
All kinds of crazy stuff.
So before we even kick off the podcast, I think it's good to to acknowledge the elephant in the room and that's Charlie Kirk's death.
0:35
I just want to say this is just my own opinion.
Whatever your views, whether you agree with somebody, disagree, you're indifferent.
We all share something more important than an opinion and that's the value of human life.
It's the importance of respecting others and the need to treat people with dignity even if we disagree.
0:55
It's moments like these I've been thinking about like how big ideas, strong ideas, different ideas, you don't need to disagree and degrade others.
If somebody has a different perspective, you know, like listening to somebody's listen to somebody's perspective that you disagree with is how we, we are human.
1:12
That's what makes us human is the ability to have discourse, listening to different ideas, different thoughts and, and, and, you know, comparing them to ours and maybe shifting, maybe not whatever, but that's, that's what it is to be human.
And so, you know, I've been thinking about that and I don't want to make this a political podcast, but it, it does tie into this last week things that we've experienced in, in the concrete industry.
1:38
You know, we've had some crazy things happen.
When we first launched Kodiak, we had, we had a person calling Kodiak customers and threatening them, like physically threatening them and.
Physically, yeah.
And their family harm, yeah, not just them, it's the artisan.
But like calling and threatening them and harm for using the products.
1:58
Yeah, and it's a person we don't even know.
I mean, that's a crazy thing.
It was, it was, it was a person I've never met.
You've never met and you know we've had some crazy like stalkerish type things have happened over the last few years, but you know it just.
Yeah, to the point of literally calling a Wellness checks.
I mean done for the right reasons.
2:13
Called a Wellness check because of coming unhinged.
Yeah, yeah.
But it's just one of the things it's like we can agree to disagree.
We can like to bring this back to concrete to like get out of the politics out of it.
But if you are a person that loves Quikrete or you're a person that loves polymer or you think Polymer's the best thing ever, dude, you're still my my concrete brother, my concrete sister.
2:36
You're still a part of the family.
And I don't we're.
Not enemies.
Yeah, we will never be I.
Don't care what your perspective you think Kodiak is the worst products ever made.
That's fine dude.
Like I I don't hate you for that thought like or that perspective.
You can have your perspective.
It probably is.
2:51
It's probably the first things ever made.
But we can agree to have different perspectives and to like, go our separate ways and not hate each other.
You know, we can we can like all coexist.
And so just yeah, the the attitude.
Lost a really good friend and mentor over it who was doing the same thing, calling people and being very disparaging.
3:13
I mean, it's it's it's unfortunate and I know you already said it, but I want to put it in my words too.
You guys, everybody listening, you know, regardless of what we're talking about, I just want to focus on concrete.
We're all trying to do the same thing at the end of the day.
3:31
And that's things we've talked about, you know, trying to turn your business profitable, spend more time with your family, you know, and when I say more profitable so that you have the kind of lifestyle, whatever that means to you that you'd like to live.
That's all of us are trying to do this and make in whatever view your is no big small whatever to make some cool products that that people purchase.
3:57
You know, we're not enemies.
No matter how you do that, whatever products you happen to be using, your styles, whatever the case may be, you know, the militant attitudes, the the campus like stuff, you know, whatever we've talked about it before, we'd love to say it come down.
4:16
And quite frankly, I think some people thought with our I mean, come on, I'm not going to lie, my personality, your personality, probably a lot of people see us as bold, you know, coming out with new things like, well, why do we need that?
I can see it.
I can see the pros and cons of any of it, but anybody listening likes us, hate us.
4:36
Whatever it is, remember, do not, to the best of your ability, do not think that you know turning somebody to your enemy is a good thing to do.
Because it's not.
It's not.
And it's it's needless, like there's nobody in this industry that I wish harm for, you know, I can't I can't remember.
4:58
It was what wasn't the doubt of Cheng, but it was some book I was reading.
I can't remember what book it was, but it was saying your enemy, the the person that you dislike the most, think about them so essentially at the last moments of their life, like dying.
Do you still feel that way?
Probably not.
5:13
You probably don't feel that way about him anyways.
Yeah, yeah.
We can get off that because again, I could go, I could keep going.
Let's not keep going, let's not keep going.
Let's send it right there.
Jeez.
Louise, let's send it right there.
All right.
OK.
So, yeah.
5:29
So that's been that's been the last week.
What else?
I have a list.
Oh, I have a few things to talk about 1 is repairing concrete.
So that was I I asked our friend ChatGPT about some topics that people are querying the Internet for when it comes to DIY concrete and repairing concrete is one of them concrete countertops, concrete sinks.
5:53
And it's that's interesting because we've never talked about that.
We've done 150 something podcasts and I don't think we ever talked about actually repairing a piece in the field because it's not something that what.
Do you mean by?
Yeah, I guess.
But what kind of repair?
We talked about like a chip, a crack?
Well, it's not something that we do much of.
6:10
I mean, I've in 21 years I've like gone out in the field and repaired something and it's always been another trade.
Damaged it like a, a hammer fell and chipped an edge or something.
But probably three times in 21 years.
And the last time was so long ago I can't even remember.
6:26
You know, GFRC really helped that because it was traditional concrete.
It was definitely more brittle.
The reinforcement was steel reinforcement or carbon fiber, but it didn't have the fiber reinforcement in it.
So any type of impact, it would be more prone to chipping off.
When we made the switch to GFRC, that essentially stopped.
6:45
Like I haven't really experienced that ever since.
But what got me thinking about this was a jet GBT gave me.
That's a a query that a lot of people are asking.
But the second thing was Dusty Baker sent me some photos last night of there's, there's a concrete person in Nashville that's making products, concrete products.
7:07
And they're just, they're the worst I've ever seen.
Dusty is being called left and right to go and repair this person's pieces.
And he sent me the photos and they are absolutely the worst concrete I have ever seen in my life.
And it's for a multitude of reasons.
7:22
One's probably the products he's using and I know what product Dusty told me the products he's using.
And then it's it's one that a lot of people are using.
I'll say that it's just a really common brand that people bring up and they think of concrete.
Second part of it is you can tell the person has really bad technique.
So they're spraying a face coat.
7:40
I can just tell by the photos, they're spraying a face coat and then they're waiting far too long to apply the back code.
And then the back coat you can tell isn't a true GFRC or or maybe a high performance type mix.
It, it looks like a almost like a Quikrete mix.
7:55
It threw some fibers in that they're using to to backfill and they're probably doing it to save money, but they're not bonding.
And so what's happening is there's delamination, there's air pockets that are opening up, there's a whole sections that are just flaking off of the face coat and you see the kind of that, you know, cheaper concrete mix behind it.
8:13
So Dusty's spending a lot of time right now repairing pieces in Nashville.
And so it's not, again, it's not something that I've had to deal with much.
Put it this person would it put these projects, not necessarily the person on blast if you shared them, because now again, I don't want to begin Turk this we all right.
8:30
We just started off like, hey, let's not be.
Let's be tolerant.
Well, and this is, this is intolerance.
This is just like this is this is something Dusty's, yeah.
I guess that's where I'm going with it because see, this would be a situation where I'd be like, hey man, we could all learn.
8:47
You know it may if it was technique.
I feel like calling the company, yeah, but I feel like calling the company that that's doing it and just saying, dude, let's, let's get you straightened out.
You know, we can I, I can I see what's going on.
And, you know, your customers aren't happy.
9:03
They're calling other companies.
Come repair your stuff.
We can help you get this fixed, you know, from a materials viewpoint, but also from a technique viewpoint.
So we can help you with that, yeah.
That would be good.
Or, you know, reaching out just to invite.
Yeah, I like that.
9:19
And it's too bad.
Hopefully they're not so bad that they have to be just replaced.
Yeah.
And I'm going with it because as we're talking about repairs now, these ones in Nashville, it was not that long ago.
9:35
I have, gosh, I don't know, must be a 12 foot vanity top in AI.
Don't know.
What do you call that where men and women all can go into the same bathroom?
Unisex.
9:51
Yeah, unisex, yeah.
So one big unisex bathroom.
I was thinking Co something, but I couldn't come up with it on my mind.
And for whatever reason, four years later, this piece was developing these weird little open, slightly open hairline cracks, but in the middle of nowhere, middle of nowhere.
10:15
It wasn't strain.
It wasn't.
It was the weirdest thing any of us saw.
But in that particular situation, I called Joe Bates, who hooked me up with a company called Chemical Co Systems Healer Sealer, another two-part epoxy.
10:31
Oh.
My goodness, man.
Yeah.
Put it in a syringe, you know, put it into the little cracks, taped it up underneath, put tape underneath the vanity.
You know, in case I didn't want this because it's super, super thin epoxy.
I didn't want to just running through like water if the cracks actually went through and turns out they didn't.
10:50
But by the time I had sealed these little cracks back up and then did some, you know, whatever hand rubbing and foing, Oh my God, it looked beautiful.
Like I turned it into this like antiquish kind of look.
11:05
That was brilliant.
So, you know, if we're talking about something like that, hey, anybody you got a project out there?
Developed a a weird crack in the middle of nowhere somewhere.
And I say that because my thought is someone got up on this thing because they they do hold parties and everything there.
11:26
Someone either got up and like, danced or walked through this vanity top.
Dude, it was it was the Christmas.
Party.
The company Christmas party, some people snuck off, had too much a drink.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they put a crack in that something.
11:43
It's pretty clear, man.
And of course, we just joke because, you know, it's on a steel frame.
I mean, it has no place to go.
And where are these little, you know, pressure cracks happened?
You know, I was just picturing, yeah, 3-4 people in the middle of this thing just, you know, dancing and dancing.
12:04
I mean, who knows.
But anyway, that's what I end up.
So that would be a recommended healer sealer.
Product not.
Real thin little cracks.
Not to recommend healer sealer.
I was actually, I was going to jump in and two things on hit before before the well, one of them is part of it.
12:21
This was way before Kodiak Pro.
So I want to put this out there.
Anybody listening to this and hearing Jon talking about a piece cracked in the middle, that was far before Kodiak Pro.
That was old school mixes, correct?
How long ago was this?
Oh, yeah, no, no, I put that piece in nine years ago, OK.
12:38
And that's why I said these little things didn't happen until 4 or 4 1/2 years down the road.
Yeah.
All right.
So that was nine years ago.
Second of all, Heeler Sealer, We know of a big, big, big concrete sink company on the East Coast that uses Heeler Sealer to seal their pieces.
12:54
And the owner of that company, who since sold it.
But the owner of that company developed such an allergic condition to Heeler Sealer, which is an epoxy, that he couldn't even go into the building, couldn't even walk into his own shop because he'd break out in hives.
So not that you have that the first time you use healer sealer or like these epoxy sealers, but everybody on a long enough timeline will develop an allergic reaction to it.
13:21
So I'm just I'm not a fan of it.
I use.
Apoxy, I agree, but sorry to interrupt you man.
I just want to clarify that that name healer sealer, there's probably a dozen some odd.
That's why I specifically say this is CCS or Chemi Chemico Systems.
13:40
Is it the same one the one that are using?
Yeah, totally different.
Yeah.
So this is a company called Chemco Systems.
Don't get me wrong, 99% likely that they're isothionate or you know they're Part B cross linker is an isothionate base, but this is not the same product is what was being used by the true company out in on the East Coast.
14:08
Gotcha.
Different problem.
Yeah, well, I just say that because we all believe epoxy is totally safe.
And I I do use epoxy occasionally when I work with foam.
I like to use epoxy to coat the foam.
But it it is something that you do build up a allergy to if you use it too much or you're exposed to it too much.
14:28
So it's like walnut shelves, like people that work in walnut factories and stuff, they all develop an allergy on a long enough timeline to it walnut dust.
So it's the same with with epoxy.
Yeah, that's the interesting thing about walnut.
So you you'll develop an allergy to it and you'll get super sick.
If you, I mean, the guy that we know, it wouldn't even be he would just walk into the space.
14:47
It was already cured, the sealer and he would break out in hives.
So that's how how bad it can become.
Well, I'm.
Not to stay on this for a minute, but there's a reason for that, that although again, people got mad at us about the moment with a lot of these two, well, all of them.
15:05
The moment with these two K products that are using these kind of technologies, isothionase or azoritidines is also a big one to choose.
The moment you open that cap, it's in the air.
Yeah.
I don't care if you you know, it doesn't matter.
15:22
I shouldn't say I don't care.
It doesn't matter if you suck some up into a syringe and put the cap back on as fast as you can.
I don't.
If you pop the cap and then, you know, put that, what what does the spray in there?
Right.
A CO2 spray or whatever it is that keeps the air out of it or going.
15:40
A lot of it takes the moisture out of it.
Sorry, because a lot of them are most moisture sensitive.
No, the moment you open that cap and the whole time you're mixing A&B, it's in the air, you're breathing it, it's on your skin and it lingers.
15:57
So that's why I guess what I'm saying, I'm just trying to put out there.
A lot of people don't understand that, and they think like, hey, once I put it on there, hey, look, it's hard.
It's cured.
Yeah, well, I mean, you still have all of that residue flying through the air in your shop, in your spaces and that so you're breathing it in, you're getting it in through any and all orifice in your body.
16:22
I mean it so.
Every orifice if you're.
Not doing a a lot of air scrubbing.
It is what it is, no?
Every orifice, huh?
Well, maybe not everyone.
He says they're getting it in every orifice.
I'm like, sounds painful, Yeah.
16:42
A healer sealer.
It sounds like a feeler sealer anyways, So well, I'm thinking how do like what Dusty's dealing with right now.
How do you fix or how do you repair?
You get a call from a customer.
16:58
Maybe you know, it's not even a piece you made.
It's a piece somebody else made, but they sprayed a face coat and they the face coat de laminated off.
There's a big chunk missing of the surface or corners missing.
How do you go out if you, if you can take it on?
17:13
Here's the other part of that.
But if it's not your piece, once you take it on, you're accepting liability for that.
So you know, me and Joe have difference of opinion.
It's Joe Bates.
We had a conversation about going out and repairing like he's done a lot of reseals of other people's stuff.
17:30
And I say I don't like doing reseals because you don't know what the other person did.
You don't know the quality.
And you get in there and you start messing with it and now all the liabilities transferred to you.
The client's looking at you.
If it's not perfect in their eyes, it's your problem when you're trying to Polish a turd that you didn't even make, so it's the same.
17:47
Thing differ on that too, yeah.
Yeah, it's the same thing with this, in my opinion.
If you choose to take on repairing somebody else's work, that's not your work.
At that point, whatever happens from there on out, the client's looking at you, you're the expert, and this is now your fault if it's not 100% to their liking.
18:03
So, you know, I would say, well.
Let's talk about just this particular project.
Hold on.
Let me say go ahead.
Set very because.
I'm looking at the pictures you sent me right now.
I'm trying to say what I'm trying to say, set very clear expectations of what's possible, what's reasonable and what's likely to be the outcome before we even start.
18:22
Clear and realistic expectations are the most important thing.
And and I if you do that, then I think you have a fighting chance of having a happy customer, regardless of, you know, if it's a perfect fix, perfect match, perfect colour, perfect whatever they understood going into it.
18:40
You're going to do your best, but it's going to be slightly off, you know, but it's going to be better than it is.
And that's all you can hope for is better than what it currently is.
So yeah, go ahead.
Well, as I said, I'm looking at the pictures in this particular situation.
Well, so us as whatever we want to call our set repair even reseals, you first have to set not just for the client, but yourself reasonable expectations.
19:06
And in these most of these delamination looking pieces, the reasonable is to replace.
And the reason I say that is in these photos you are definitely seeing delamination and areas that have Plumb clean and large areas come off right.
19:27
The difficulty in that isn't this isn't a pinhole, you know what I mean?
So where these large pieces have, let's say, sloughed off and come off, more is going to happen.
That's obvious.
It's just, you know.
19:42
What I mean, yeah, it's the beginning.
Yeah, yeah, this is just the beginning.
So that it would not be reasonable in this situation because, you know, a lot of people like, oh heck no, you know, come in with a, if you're good at it, you know, with a, you know, micro concrete or you know, and skim it all.
20:00
And well, now in this situation, that would not be a good idea because any of the places, even if you went through the whole thing with a pry bar and tried to break as much off, that clearly is it's not bonded very well.
So in that, no, it's not worth it.
20:18
It's simply not worth it.
It's not worth your time, and more importantly, it's not worth the client's time by the time they pay you.
To repair this and the headache you went through to the best of your ability to make this repair a bull.
20:36
No, there's again, there's there's this hidden monster throughout the entire piece.
It's obvious that that that there was steps missed or misunderstood.
At the very least that is is going to continue to happen the surfaces.
20:54
Sorry, I'm keep going with these photos.
I'm looking at if it was just like some of these surfaces I'm looking at where I'm just going to say the sealer failed.
I mean, these are pretty clear failed surfaces from a sealer point of view that those could be resealed.
21:12
And I know no one else but you and me are seeing these photos.
Thinkers have been resealed.
If you go to concrete, not concrete design school, Kodiak Pro.
If you go to Kodiak Pro to the blog, just Scroll down to the podcast, say the blog, the podcast.
And put them up.
Yeah, I'll put them up in there.
You won't see them on Spotify or Apple or any of the other places, but if you go to Kodiak Pro, Scroll down to the podcast and click on this episode.
21:35
I'll post the photos in there and you can see them.
Yeah.
So I was going to say from a surface point of view, not taking into account the delaminations and said just the surfaces, let's say these were pure precast SCCS sealer failure situation.
21:50
Regardless of the sealer, they can certainly be resealed.
But again, this is where a person would have to set their expectation and client expectation because the damage done in the time that it took between them calling you for repair, you are not going to get these looking new again, no how, no way.
22:10
You can sand them down and I'm going to say probably clean up 5060% of it, reseal what's left, and then you're going to lock it into the surface, you know, for and create a very durable and wearable surface from this point on.
But yeah, these surfaces are far more than just stained.
22:29
They're, they're eroded and they've taken quite a bit of damage, you know, and, and this is where I say because you look on some of these photos, there's, there's clear micro crack stuff going in.
And again, that's all spray face getting ready to continue to Slough off this.
22:47
This would be a situation where the right thing to do overall is the client needs to replace.
But and then gosh, man, sorry to keep talking.
This is a difficult situation for all of us as artisans because I'm sure whoever hired whomever to do this was under the impression that concrete is concrete is concrete, right?
23:16
And then this person they hired to come do this was making them, you know, concrete countertops or benches or whatever the case may be.
And right, this linear bar of quality of what conquer all concrete is concrete.
23:33
So the task that's going to be difficult is convincing these people to replace because from their point of view, how do they know you're not just bringing them more concrete?
Because they paid for concrete and concrete's clearly not durable based on their experience.
23:50
You know what I mean?
That that's a tough spot to be in.
The only thing I could think of is taking for granted it's a big enough job and you actually want the job is maybe make them something, a sample, whatever and say here, fuse the hell out of this for the next blankety blank weeks or whatever you know, and then and then talk to me about me coming back and and doing what I think is much better quality.
24:19
Yeah, yeah, You know, I when I first started doing GFRC pieces and I sprained face coats for everything.
And that's something that's why I want to kind of reach out to this guy and and just have a conversation with him and tell him you're spraying face coats for countertops.
24:36
You don't need to do that.
You don't need, you know, from the products he's using.
I'm pretty sure he went and took a free demo day, you know, maybe like for profit, how to do this type thing.
Yeah.
Something to make him profitable.
Yeah, so he went and took a free class.
24:51
And when information is free, you get what you pay for.
You know, when you, when it's a free thing, come up and get a slice of pizza and see, see somebody that's never done it before, show you how to do it.
You know, somebody that's never been profitable, they're going to teach you to be profitable.
I mean, it's madness when you think about it, But he got some bad, he got some bad information and he's using products that aren't working for him.
25:14
Not that they don't work for everybody.
I'm sure there's people out there that have success, but for him, the products are not working the way they that he needs them to.
But, you know, have a conversation and then just tell him you don't need to spray face coat for these things.
You can just pour.
You can just pour it right in.
He might be doing it.
25:30
The only thing the only reason I think he might be doing is because that back mix looks super thick and does not look.
Like, yeah, it looks like they look solid.
Yeah, but it looks like an OPC.
It looks like a quick creep mix.
He threw some fibers in.
That's what it looks like to me.
It does not look like a high performance mix.
And I my gut instinct is he's spraying a face coat and pouring A backer coat of a cheaper mix to save money and are not bonding.
25:53
Those those two things are are not bonding.
But you know, get them, get them lined up.
Because the other thing is you might save, you might on that whole project, whatever it was a restaurant bar, you might save 70 bucks or 100 bucks materials, but what did it cost you?
26:09
It cost you a customer that will never use you again.
That would cost you a reputation.
Curse your name to every other person that they ever deal with, you know?
Hey.
Anybody who anybody who goes there is going to see this but.
They're going to say, hey, I'm going to be doing concrete counter tops, definitely don't do concrete countertops.
26:24
I had the worst experience ever, you know, blah, blah blah.
So.
Go, go down to so and so's, you know, whatever lunch shop.
Look at those things.
That's concrete.
Yeah, you don't want that.
Yeah, so you're stepping over dollars to pick up Dimes when you when you try to save money like and I'm not 100% certain that's what he's doing.
26:44
It's just from the photos, that back mix does not look right to me.
It looks way too thick.
The other thing is if you open up, the one looks like a corner, right?
It looks like somebody's already been out there previously and did a repair on the other side.
27:03
So that's the other thing.
Whoever, whatever this restaurant, whatever it is, outside bar, outside restaurant, it's pretty clear someone's already came out once before and tried to repair.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Yeah, you see it right there and then.
Look, and This is why I'm saying, yeah, no, repair is not an option because clearly whoever put that, you know, lipstick on the pig, a short time later the other side did the same thing, came.
27:30
On well, they just came in and they put a slurry in it and yeah, but it's, yeah, it's, yeah.
I keep there's a term in my mind, I can't think what it is, but there's a term for that.
And I don't know, it's almost like a cancer and it's spreading.
And you know, the problem with that delamination too, is it delaminated here?
27:49
But give it another cycle of of heat and cold, you know, summer, winter, these are outdoor pieces and that thermal expansion is going to pop over there.
And then, you know, another cycle, it's going to pop over there.
It'll never, it'll never end.
So yeah, you should pull it out.
But back to repairing the method of repairing.
28:07
So let's, let's take these off the table.
Let's just, you know, take this whole thing off because those, those are replacements.
Yeah, those are replacements.
But you, let's say you have a project you put in pieces and there was a trade that dropped a a sledgehammer off a ladder and it hit the edge of something and chipped it, right?
28:25
It happens.
You know, it, it could definitely happen.
How would you repair that?
Because the customer doesn't want to pull out 200 square feet of bar tops because there's a quarter sized chip and, you know, on the edge.
How would you repair that, Jon?
Well, I think the the best way is similar to what the stone industry does and that is again, using a a colored epoxy, try to make your best, fill it in, sand it.
28:52
And I mean, I've seen I'm not very good at it, to be honest with you.
Unfortunately, I don't deal with much of it.
That's, you know, got me in a position to learn that skill.
But there are some people very good at it who have done things.
Now we're talking countertops, but I've seen where whole fronts.
29:10
I'm going to talk steps, you know, steps have been chipped or banged and this and that and they come in and you're like, whoa, man, that looks good.
I I mean, you didn't didn't say now how long it lasts that I don't know.
I haven't been around long enough.
Excuse me to see how long it lasts.
29:28
But yeah, there's some of the stone products.
I'm thinking that it's a it's a white or blue container, 10X.
That's what it is 10X that a lot of people use and it does a great job under those situations.
29:43
Yeah, when I was in Phoenix, there was a lot of granite supply companies there and they used to sell knife grade epoxy and a color kit and you would go out on site and mix it up and, and apply it.
And yeah, I mean, it, it worked pretty good.
29:59
I that's when I told you I'd like probably two or three that I had to repair over the years.
And yeah, that's what I did.
I that's what I did.
Now in my shop, there's been a few times that when I'm demolding or something, I get a little too aggressive and I might the, the what was ultimately the bottom side of the, the piece, you know, but when I'm demolding, it's the top.
30:20
I'll chip a little piece out in those instances.
What I've done is I've mixed up before I even pull my form off.
I'll leave my form on.
But before I pull my form off, I'll mix up a little bit of slurry with a binder, a bonder in it.
And this is the one time that acrylic is good or a polymer is good because it's glue.
30:39
That's what it is.
It's glue.
So I'll mix up a little bit of a slurry with like 5050 water slash polymer acrylic and and then I'll put it in there, trowel it in there, you know, to use like a little Bondo applicator, put it in there, smooth it out nice and then let it cure overnight and then come in and demould it and it's 99.999% disappears, you know, once you finish the piece because it's concrete, it's against the form.
31:07
And, and so I've done that again, it's been a handful of times in 21 years, but that's, that's something I've done when I've gotten too aggressive and I got a little crazy with, with a hammer and A and a pry bar and I did a little chip.
So that's happened, but it hasn't been well.
31:23
While you were talking I did look and sure enough it is TENAX and they have a whole thing called a repair kit pro and.
It's an epoxy.
Yeah, and it's epoxy knife grade put together and there's even some videos on YouTube as I was just looking and that kind of give some techniques to repairing.
31:47
Now again, it's all going to be on stone, not concrete, but at least point you in the right direction.
Yeah.
And all knife grade means if you're like what's what's a knife grade?
It just means it's really thick.
It's super thick.
It's almost like Bondo.
And so when you make and people like what's Bondo?
And, you know, speaking these terms, assuming everybody knows, but Bondo is a body filler that they use an automotive industry to fill in dents and Dings on on a car.
32:10
And so if you go to Lowe's or Home Depot or any of these places, they sell Bondo.
It's a name brand, but it's a body filler is the actual technical term. 3 M sells body fillers, Evercode sells body fillers, but Bondo is a brand.
And but so knife grade epoxy is just a really thick epoxy, super thick.
32:29
And so when you shape it into the whatever the shape is, you know, so you like use a, a piece of metal to bring it up and then over the round, over and across so it gets the same profile, it keeps that shape, it doesn't slump at all, it doesn't change shape.
Yeah, man, I've been real fortunate over the years not had to deal with any of that stuff.
32:48
But just because we're having this conversation and the type of person I am, it makes me think, hey, see, there's a skill that I just clearly underdeveloped.
I mean, people are good at repairing and you know what I mean?
And and blending that in so like you'd never seen it.
33:07
And that's pretty cool in my opinion.
Yeah, yeah, in another industry, rammed earth, which is something that I, I do from time to time, there's a company in Europe that makes big sections off site.
And these are big sections, like 2 foot thick, big, big, big sections.
33:23
And they have holes that go through each section so they can get bars through and lift it with a crane and put on a truck and then get it there.
And they, they build these huge walls like Legos, you know, they stack these big rammed earth bricks essentially, but they're massive.
And they have these holes that go all the way through.
33:40
And they have a team of people that all they do is repair those holes and then the seams in between each block.
And when it's done, you cannot tell that it was done in blocks.
They are so good at texture and color and and whatever.
33:55
So, yeah, I mean, people that that's what they do for a living.
And in the stone industry, there's people that's what they do for a living.
All they do is repairs.
Those people are phenomenal.
And maybe that's what you do.
Maybe if you have something like that, like a client calls you and says, hey, Brandon, you know, electrician was up there and he dropped, dropped a sledge and it hit the piece and chipped the edge.
34:15
Is there anything you can do?
I might call around and just try to find a stone repair person and hire them to just come in and do it.
Or the client can hire them but because they're super skilled at.
It or the electrician can hire.
Yeah, yeah, whoever.
But but they're super skilled at it because it it is a skill and it is something that it takes time to get good at.
34:35
Yeah, yeah.
Yep.
So what else, Jon?
You said you had some tech call stuff you want to talk about and I said, well, save it for the podcast.
I don't even know what's on your list.
What's on your list?
Well, this was a simple one.
Well, it seems simple to me, but I've learned more and more over the years, as you know, regardless of what we're talking about and I've I relayed this to you the other day when we were talking about trap shooting, right as I'm learning to trap shoot and taking all the verbiage that I've heard from everybody over the years, the coaches and so forth.
35:09
And then you go do and you really think they're trying to follow what the coach was saying and find out that your interpretation of what they're saying.
It's not even close kind of thing.
So I had as it was actually Seth.
So I'm hoping he posts on the on the ICT about it.
35:25
But he called me up and he said, Jon, you know, once in a while and they sent me all these pictures.
Once in a while when he's ceiling, he'll go to do a water test after fusion and I'll leave these, I don't know how else to describe them, but these white scars, right?
35:43
It, it doesn't peel the sealer up or anything.
It doesn't leave indents.
It doesn't.
And he's like, man, I don't know.
And so I had him troubleshoot with a few things that I'm used to seeing and which would instantly tell me what's going on.
And nothing was following the path, You know, like a real simple one is run your torch over it.
36:02
If it's gone in a second, then, you know, that's something to do with an alcohol, You know, I mean, I, I'm so used to all these things and, you know, make sure you're actually spraying water, not alcohol, you know, as all of us sometimes grab the wrong bottle.
Anyway, Long story short, in this particular situation, as it turns out, my verbiage of mixing part A and Part B, and when I say a gentle shake, again, I could be wrong because now I'm trying to interpret with what Seth was telling me without a video.
36:33
He was more or less taking the bottle and just kind of like rocking it back and forth, rocking it back and forth.
And what we came to found out by doing that, he's not actually getting the B not just dispersed throughout the the liquid, but he's not getting it settled in to the the way I describe the polymers as think of them like a Caterpillar, a big hairy Caterpillar at what I call acid tails and all those hairs of the Caterpillar.
37:01
Are charged.
I love your, I love your descriptions.
You always have one, whether it's an onion and you're peeling back the onion or yeah, it's an electron.
It's charging particles.
And think of an onion.
I think of a Caterpillar.
Yeah, a Caterpillar.
37:18
That's the way to look at it.
And if all of those little hairs who's all seen a Caterpillar are charged like a magnet, you know, it's the carbodemi that's has it needs to figure out how to settle in between and get through that charged barrier.
And as I said, that takes time, doesn't take a whole lot of agitation, but it definitely takes more agitation than just kind of, you know, rolling back and forth kind of thing.
37:42
So as it turned out, I sent him a video of like what I call gentle shaking, you know, more like A2 handed shake weight, because I've gotten real good with that.
I bet you, yeah.
And.
Yeah, I may shake it up like like you're shaking a martini.
38:01
Give it a good shake.
I don't do it for 3 minutes, but a good shake, 10 seconds, give it a good shake and then set it down and let it set overnight, you know?
So once again, I'll just tell anybody out there if that's something you've ran into and it it won't happen immediately.
But let's say you, you know, mix the part A pair B and, you know, three days, four days, five days, your early pieces like, oh, my God, yeah, nothing.
38:23
These are fantastic.
But then all of a sudden when you're testing a piece, well, you know, why is water leaving these whitish scars that go away easy, but they don't stay away.
It's not because you're not hitting your Cadillac temperatures.
It goes back to inadequate blending of the part A and Part B.
38:43
And always make sure not just shake it at the time you mix, but each time before use.
Just a good nice gentle shake kind of thing.
And and keep those materials agitated, especially if it's now sat on your shelf or a table for two or three days, you know, and now you come back, you're going to seal another piece.
39:01
Always, always agitated again.
So in this situation, let me clear why this happens, because if the Part B doesn't actually get in between with the part A, within about four or five days, the Part B loses its charge.
39:21
OK, which means now you just have a bunch of Part B floating around in solution.
That's not going to do a damn thing.
It won't do anything.
It won't cross link anything.
No heat bothers it.
It's just sitting in there doing nothing.
So what he ended up doing is putting some fresh Part B back in, shaking it back up, and, you know, and then he was back to having good results.
39:42
So just be aware that is a way to fix it.
But the better way is just do good agitation, maintain your agitation when you mix those parts together.
Yeah.
So that was one of the tech supports.
Cool.
I don't.
39:58
Remember the other one I hit?
Someone hit me on the now the other day and I don't know, I'll come up with it in a second.
How about you?
Anything exciting?
No, no, You know, I think I think important part of what we do on this podcast is just being honest and talking about the good and talking about the bad and, you know, everything in between from an honest perspective and reality.
40:25
Because, you know, I was listening to Joe Rogan yesterday and he had Matthew McConaughey on and McConaughey was talking about his son, a boy named Levi.
When he turned 15, they let him get on Instagram and he kept posting like just the perfect shot of everything, right?
40:43
Him surfing and always being on the wave.
And and Matthew McConaughey told him, Hey, man, you're setting yourself up for failure if all you show is the good stuff, you know, like you're, you're setting an expectation that you're like the best surfer ever.
So you need to show the fails too, to like, you know, so you're not setting yourself up.
41:02
I think that's important with all of us is we live in a very curated world and you only see the good.
You only see the success, you don't see the failure, you don't see whatever.
So for me, Jon, a funny thing that's going on right now this week is I'm teaching a class this weekend, right?
41:18
Basics class, fundamentals class.
And you know, I've been teaching classes since 2005, actually before that, because I taught workshops for for Buddy Rhodes, the man before 2005.
But I've been teaching for a long time, a long time.
And ever since COVID attendance dropped off a Cliff for for various reasons, but you know, the first there was COVID, then the economy, you know, went through a retraction.
41:41
And, and I'd say the third part, the third part of the whole thing is YouTube has given people the, the perspective that hands on training is no longer needed.
I'll just learn it on YouTube.
So they have that mindset now.
It's a false mindset and they figure it out after they go to business, But they think I'm just going to, I'm not going to spend a couple 1000 bucks to get a flight and hotel and rental car and pay for a class.
42:06
Like I'll just do YouTube, you know, and but you get what you pay for.
And so then they end up going out of business.
So all I'll say is like, you know, back in Phoenix and Eureka Springs, we'd have workshops.
I mean, you've been teaching with me for, for a long, long time.
We'd have 2020 thirty people in a class.
42:24
But since COVID, it went from like 30 people in a class to 15 people in a class to 10 people in a class to seven people in the class.
Dude, this is the first class.
It's a basics class, 1st class with one person in it, One person.
So I would cancel the class.
42:39
It's just financially, it's not even viable to do, to do a 1 1/2 day class with one person.
But this, this gentleman's coming from Israel.
He booked his Yeah, he booked his flight and got his paperwork in order.
And so I got to do it.
42:55
I got it.
I got to do it.
So I'm going to come in.
I'm going to come in Saturday, me and one other guy, and I'm going to give it 100%, man.
He's going to get the best, best class ever.
He's going to get one-on-one.
You know what, though?
Yeah, see, yeah, you and I have talked about this in the past privately and and I realize, you know, if if we were going to do small classes like that, one person, three people, so forth, and you know, you need to charge a different amount than what we normally do.
43:24
But on the flip side, this individual is going to get so much one-on-one that he will learn 10 times more than if 10 people had been in because, you know, we've done some big ones.
43:42
When I say big, you know, 20, even 30 people.
And sometimes it felt like herding cats.
And what I mean by that is like, you're still working on somebody.
Someone got left behind.
They went to the bathroom.
Something's going on.
Hey, I didn't catch what you said.
And, you know, and and it becomes very difficult to keep everybody rolling along in these smaller venues like this.
44:03
Man.
Oh, my God.
I really hope he just deep dives with you because he will get so much information and, you know.
Yeah, it's really cool.
Yeah.
I was talking to case, Jared Case and he was asking if I need any help and I'm like, no, bro, I only got one person in this class and he's like, well, what, what's going on?
44:25
I'm like, man, it's been it's been on decline since COVID and you know, and then the economy, which I get that.
Like it's really hard to justify spending money on a workshop when you can barely pay your mortgage.
I get it.
But I, I said, you know, I really feel that YouTube is the thing that's just gotten in people's.
44:42
It's become like this mindset in America that hands on training isn't necessary anymore.
You can learn everything online in case it's like, dude, I mean, because he said when he first started, he tried to go down that road and he was learning everything online.
44:58
It was all going sideways.
And his business partner, Lyndall, came to a workshop we did in Tennessee.
And he said even that Lyndall came back and it was like a game of telephone.
He was like, yeah, they're doing this.
And we weren't.
But he just, he wasn't paying attention when he came to the class.
So finally Jared came to a class in Eureka Springs and learned how to do it the right way and was paying attention.
45:18
Lyndall wasn't paying attention when he came.
And he's like, yeah, it makes a massive difference because up until then they were struggling, like struggling, struggling, struggling because like it, you know, he'd learned everything online.
And it was only when he got that hands on experience and training and figured out, Oh my God, we've been doing this wrong.
45:33
We were doing that wrong.
And you know, that they started having success.
So hands on training is extremely valuable.
But you know.
Extremely valuable.
Yeah, Luckily where you and I are lucky is from, from Kodiak Pro and training is we have businesses making concrete for customers.
45:55
So I'm not relying on training income to pay the bills and I'm not relying on Kodiak to pay the bills and neither are you.
And so from that viewpoint, we're able to do things that other people can't do, you know, like other, other materials companies have to sell 10 different sealers because they're in the business selling stuff and the more stuff, oh, that wouldn't work Well, here you use this one.
46:15
Oh, that one didn't work well here you use this one during the business of selling you stuff.
That's what that all they want to do is sell you stuff we don't want to do.
We want to sell you the right stuff.
If you want to buy it, If you want to buy it, that's fine.
Don't buy it.
Like I, I literally, it doesn't make a difference to me.
Buy your stuff, don't buy your stuff.
As long as you're successful, that's all that matters to me.
Well, see, that's what I was going to say.
46:32
I I just, I was going to go the other.
I don't personally feel like I sell products at all.
I if I'm going to say I sold anything success.
I mean, again, going back to the photos we just talked about, I can only imagine if this individual A had the training because wherever he got the training set him up for failure.
46:58
Unfortunately, I can say that, right.
Based on those photos, I can certainly say he made his own errors maybe.
But you know, I think based on those photos show that it is what it is.
And then secondly, of all the the products would've been, are designed and catered for a use that would have turned that situation very different from a success point of view.
47:26
So per what we just said, that installation would have had people going, Oh my God, if that word concrete came up, everything from, I'm guessing a bartender, a barista or whoever works there would be like, oh, no, yeah, this is concrete right here.
47:41
What?
Oh my God.
Yeah, yeah.
This is so durable.
I mean, an entirely different conversation would have been taking place in that situation.
Yeah.
That's to me, that's what we do, whether it's the training, tech support, you know, it's success.
I personally believe and I sincerely hope that our experience in what we do, what we develop from innovation, you know, just continues to further people's success. 100% I agree with that.
48:12
What where I was going to end with this is just training in general, I feel is going to be on the decline.
You know, it's just one of these things that if that's your business, that's how you make your income.
There's nobody coming.
You know, it's just the change in the the economy is to change in the consumer mindsets, change in the value of the value proposition of hands on training.
48:37
We'll continue to offer classes.
I'll continue to offer classes because it's not my my sole income.
And and then ultimately, you know, people do what I do want to see is I do want to see people being up for the long haul.
So they come, they learn the right way to do it, they use the right materials to do it, and then they have success.
48:55
That's great.
But I can tell you the math doesn't pencil to have one person and a basics class.
I'm here for two days and really three because, you know, tomorrow I'm going to be kind of get some stuff set up.
But it is what it is.
It is what it is.
It's not his fault.
49:11
I'm going to come in, I'm going to give him the best class he's ever got.
He's going to walk away with, you know, 10 times the the amount of knowledge that he paid for and, and hopefully he goes back and he's super successful.
That's my hope for him.
So that's what's going on with me.
What else, Jon?
49:27
Anything else?
No, I can't think of you on top of my head, no.
I was.
Thinking about something well.
No, I was thinking about, you know, we, we used to rap with things that we love, things that we love some.
49:43
Of the other things we hate, No, right.
Just as we started our whole podcast off about.
But anyway, go ahead.
Yeah, but something that I love and let you think about what you love for a second while I'm talking about mine is, you know, shoelaces.
50:00
So it's a weird thing I wear.
I wear Danner lace up boots and they have like the metal speed lace eyelets and they're really tough on laces.
Like you know, and I've worn this style boots, whether it's Thorogood or Danner or Red Wing or I've worn Keen, I've worn all different, different brands, but they all overtime shred laces.
50:23
And so typically I go through two or three pairs a year of laces, but you know, they start fraying, they get stretched, they're just whatever.
So this time around, I'm like, I wonder if they make Kevlar laces.
I wonder if that's the thing.
So I got an Amazon and sure enough, Kevlar laces are a thing.
And I bought a pair.
50:39
They're braided, braided Kevlar.
Did I want to tell you?
It's like the little things in life when someone.
Shoots you in the foot.
You're going to be all right, dude.
Yeah, if somebody pulls a gun, I'm, I'm putting my foot up in front of me, right.
But they don't stretch. 0 stretch.
50:55
So when you pull them tight, they're they're tight.
And I've been wearing them, I don't know, six months now, 0 abrasion whatsoever.
So I have high hopes that these things are going to last as long as the boots last.
And they're like 20 bucks for a, for a pair of these laces.
But Kevlar laces, I didn't know they existed.
51:11
I wish I'd known this years ago and I got them on Amazon, so that's something I love.
Well, there you go.
I'm going to check those out.
Yeah, what do you got, Jon?
And if you say something about mushroom coffee or coffee?
Oh, you just ruined it.
Oh, then forget it.
51:28
You know what?
I honestly, I don't know.
I, I guess, you know, I, I probably talked about these before, but my son and I are back into them.
Is those off the farm bars?
If anybody's interested, they are a company that makes, again, I'm going to call meal bars.
51:46
I like the protein ones with the peanut butter and stuff, but they're very affordable.
And man, that's lately, that's what I've been doing for breakfast to get my, you know, early morning protein in because I don't know about everybody else, man.
52:01
But sometimes it's just tough to get up and go, oh, I'm going to make eggs every morning, you know what I mean?
Or hey, you know, I'm going to have some steak and avocado.
So anyway, these it's called Off the Farm meal bars.
Cool, Really really enjoy them.
52:17
Yeah, I'll look into that.
I've been doing the BLT croissant at QT every morning for breakfast.
All right, on probably.
Not the best thing in the world, not the worst thing, not the best thing.
Better than better than Krispy Kreme or Dunkin' Donuts, but still more protein is better.
52:34
So I should I should look into those?
Well, all right, so we just got done talking about like YouTube, right?
YouTube and training and etcetera, etcetera.
And it just so happens that while we were having this conversation, a video came up.
52:55
I'm literally playing it right now.
I don't want to say whose it is, but I would say this.
If you follow this institute's instructions based on the video that I'm watching right now, every step is so incorrect that it's going to lead you down a path of pain.
53:21
And when I say pain, this is, no, I'm not, I'm not.
I don't even know if this company has their own products or not, you know, but if you follow the path that this in person is instructing on, what's going to happen is regardless of the mix design, it's going to end up weak.
53:37
It's going to end up susceptible to acids, It's going to shrink more than necessary and it's going to cause you a lot of problems.
So back to what we're saying and premium, I should say who it is, but here's a perfect example of someone outlaw, you know, let's say outlining steps, I'm guessing to maybe sell a product or something, but every step is completely incorrect.
54:04
And you it's going to be nothing but problems.
And even if it is a video, sorry to say, even if this is a video to just say, well, hey, but look, let me show you how this product works.
If somebody followed that path, it's it's you're, you're leading yourself down a path of pain, a pain and you will not be successful.
54:26
You'll have too much air in your mix.
It won't cast correctly.
You're going to have difficulty sealing it.
It won't cure right.
It's anyhow, I just had to put that in there because we were just talking about it.
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.
But the same time people have to figure things out for themselves, you know, they have to, if somebody watches that video and thinks like this, this person is somebody that I think has good advice and has the experience I'm looking for and has the portfolio to back up what they're saying and I'm going to follow this then, you know.
55:05
You're going to think about it.
Yeah, where you're going to struggle for a while, you're going to struggle and then hopefully at some point you say, man, this is really difficult.
Why is this so difficult?
I don't know why the concrete shouldn't be this hard.
And then you're going to talk to your buddies like, hey man, you heard about Kodiak Pro and concrete designs going.
55:21
I don't know who's that.
I check them out and you check them out and you call themselves and you say, hey man, I'm, you know, having all those problems.
My pieces are breaking and they have all those air holes.
Sealer keeps turning white and falling off and I don't know what's going on.
We can help you, but I think sometimes you have to go through that process.
55:37
You know, you have to go through the process and that's the process.
So all roads eventually lead to Kodiak Pro and Concrete Design School on a long enough timeline.
Some people, some people make it, some people unfortunately go out of business before then, but.
Yeah, along the path, Yeah, that's the unfortunate thing.
55:53
Yeah, yeah.
Or you end up having a project like that one in Tennessee, and that's too bad.
Yeah, because it could.
Have been avoidable.
Yeah, it's totally avoidable.
But Dusty said this guy and again, it's some I've never, I've never heard of him.
But I'm not in that part of the country anymore.
56:08
So he said he's super busy in Nashville.
Like he's doing a ton of projects in Nashville.
But you know, ultimately the reputation will catch up to him that there's all these failures.
So the architects and designers that are spec in them for all these projects, they're only going to do that for so long.
56:27
And you're only as good as your last project.
So you need even though you're busy today, you're not going to be busy tomorrow if that becomes your reputation.
So, you know, you need to, you need to do the best you can on every project.
Agreed.
Yeah.
Cool.
All right, buddy.
56:43
Well, I am going to get to work.
I'm making some rubber molds today.
So I got to go work on rubber molds right now.
Yeah, I got to do more of that.
I still have avoided rubbers.
I've made hundreds of rubber molds at this point, and every time I learn something new, which you'd think would be fun.
57:00
Sometimes it's fun.
But when when I say I learned something new, it's because it's some level of failure, you know, not catastrophic.
But on every single mold, there's one little thing that I'm like, damn it, you know, it didn't come out quite.
There's like an air pocket over here.
57:17
There's whatever, you know, there's always something, always something.
It's never.
A. 100% and I've done it hundreds of times.
It's there is a very humbling skill and you know, maybe someday I'll I'll make absolutely perfect molds every time.
57:34
But it's a it's very detail oriented.
No, man, I think every project, always, every project still humbles me a little bit one way or another.
It just does.
Well, rubber's very detail oriented, it's very precise and material like concrete materials are important.
57:50
I've used, I've used some products from a a very big well known company that a lot of people use.
And those rubber molds lasted for three months before they turn gummy and sticky and, and you know, just weren't usable.
And I've the one I use now is Poly.
58:05
Well, I say now I've used it ever since Hiram Ball told me it was the best rubber to use Polytek.
But you know, high Polytech molds that are 20 years old.
So that's what I'm using right now is Polytek 7445.
And we also use 74-29 white or 74-30 white, whatever it was I've talked about in the past.
58:24
But yeah, I mean, the thing about rubber is materials are super important.
If you want to mold, it's going to last a long time.
Use the right rubber.
Use Polytek.
But, but just the process, the process of building mold.
And these are complex molds.
These are 2, 3, 4, 5 part molds.
They're very complex.
58:41
They're very intricate.
And they're not even big pieces or little pieces, but they're so complex.
They're just like a jigsaw puzzle.
And it's, it's a yeah, it's, it's a humbling thing.
It's a humbling thing.
And you know, I get a little bit better every time, but also there's a little bit of failure every time and you just roll the punches and do better next time.
59:01
Yep.
All right.
So on that note, let me get back there and get to it.
All right, buddy.
All right, two weeks from now, we'll do it again.
Audios.
Well, I say audios.
You only say OK buddy and then I say audios.
I did.
I said OK buddy.
All right, audios, Jon Schuler.
Audios talk to you later, buddy.