Mold Rubber Mastery and the Art of Concrete Stains

 

Episode 117 is here, folks. This week on The Concrete Podcast, we’re talking about the finer points of mold rubber for concrete—how to use it right, avoid the pitfalls, and take your creations from good to downright legendary. But that’s not all; we’re also getting into the world of colored glazes and stains, those subtle yet powerful touches that bring concrete to life. Whether you’re just starting out or looking to sharpen your skills, this episode’s got the know-how to elevate your work. So, grab a seat, let’s talk shop, and make something extraordinary.

 

#ConcreteCraft #MoldMastery #ConcreteDesign #ColorTechniques #MoldRubber #Polytek #MaterialMagic #PolytekRubber #DesignInspiration #ConcreteArtistry

TRANSCRIPT

0:14

Hello Jon Schuler.

Hello, Brandon Gore.

That was it.

That was it.

That's all I got.

That's.

All I got all right.

That's it.

That's a wrap, folks.

It's like calling me, right?

0:31

It takes me 30 seconds of silence before I get my pods put in, so we'll just go with it.

Every time.

And then I finally just say, Jon, and you're like, what?

I was waiting for you do.

You just pick up the phone and nose breathe for a while, Jon.

0:50

Huh.

Yeah, Yeah.

What's up?

Yeah, what's up?

Well, I'm getting ready for the workshop.

I have the furniture design workshop, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

It's going to be fun.

Right on.

Yeah.

So getting ready for that.

Cast some rubber.

I'm, I'm working on some molds right now.

1:06

Cast some rubber, which we'll talk about today.

We're going to pick up on the discussion from last week on glazes, which is not my thing.

When I say glazes, tinting, sealer stains, whatever you want to call it, we'll talk about that.

What else do you want to talk?

About, I don't know, I'll talk about what I'm excited about, but I think we brought it up in the last podcast.

1:27

But today I'm actually going to be putting some stuff through the paces.

So I'm excited about that.

Those fibers we talked about, the ones that hopefully we're going to be bringing in.

So, yeah, so I got those in and, well, I've had them in and so today I'm going to go put them through the paces.

1:45

Pretty excited to see what happens.

Yeah.

So I won't have much to report on that for a minute, but based on how they're being used, I have a tough time believing they're not going to do what we want them to do.

Cool.

All right, well, let's just get right into it.

Let's start with rubber.

2:01

Rubber mold, rubber.

So I am casting some molds from some 3D printed parts, which I've done, you know, several Times Now that I have this 3D printer.

But I had some rubber sitting around that I had bought from Polytek but had never used.

2:18

It's called PT Paul Tom PT Flex 60 and it's a polyurethane liquid polyurethane Shore 85.

I'm sorry, a 55 to 60 rubber.

So it's a little bit on the on the stiffer side as far as rubber goes.

2:35

But when I read it, it said fast pour times approximately 5 minutes and fast emo times approximately 2 hours.

I read it, I'm like, yeah, OK.

I mean, it can't be 5 minutes like on the dot, you know, like that's, that's conservative, I'm sure.

2:53

And my shop isn't hot.

It's, it's probably in the 70s.

So I mixed it up per the direction.

So it's, it's 50/50 A to B by weight or volume.

I did it by weight.

I mixed it up.

All right.

I, I dispensed it, I mixed it up.

I used a drill mixer with the, with the little paddle on it.

3:09

And then I, you know, stirred it with a stick to get the sides and the bottom really good.

And I started pouring.

It probably took about a minute or two to mix it really well.

And I started pouring.

And when you pour, you pour it from a high, from a high, you know, high above the mold, and you let it pour out in a small stream so it breaks all the air bubbles as it stretches out, it breaks the bubbles, you know, just go pour it in.

3:32

So you're pouring it, you're letting it flow on a small stream into the lowest part of the mold and you let it slowly fill up so all the air can get out as it fills up.

And that's what I'm doing.

It's flowing.

It's flowing beautifully.

It's like honey just pouring, pouring, pouring.

This goes on for about probably a minute, maybe 2 minutes.

3:49

I noticed the cup is getting hot.

Right click in my hand, it's getting hot.

It's kind of like, you know, resin when you're doing fiberglass resin, it's getting hot.

I'm like, oh, oh, and it's starting to thicken.

It's thicken, it's thicken.

And I'm like looking at it as I'm pouring and it's just like as I'm watching it like in real time, it's just getting thicker and thicker and thicker.

4:07

And I'm just like, oh, and I just like dump it all in because it's going to go and it just kind of goes in like like like a slush just go into the form, right?

So you know, all this air got trapped.

So when they said approximately 5 minutes, they're not kidding.

4:24

It was like 5 minutes from the time I dispensed it till it was done.

Like it had no fluidity whatsoever.

It was completely gelled.

So obviously when I came in today, actually I was surprised when I came in today and I demolded it, it looked really good initially.

4:41

I was like, man, this looks great.

And I cleaned it up.

And as I was cleaning it, I use, you know, soapy water, Dawn dish soap to get all the mold release off.

As I'm cleaning it, I noticed that Dawn dish soap had gotten in some pin holes and there was like these huge air pockets that I couldn't see, but they filled up with soap.

4:56

And then once I rinse it, I could see all the soap on the other side of those pin holes because there's like these big caverns of air.

So I did it again.

Now the second time what I did this morning when you called me and I said, I'm pouring rubber right now.

And he said, let's talk about this on a podcast.

I was pouring Polytek 74-45 S 74 with Polytek means it's a polyurethane rubber.

5:20

So that's what 74 means.

It's just their designation for polyurethane 45 is going to be the hardness of the rubber.

So it's going to be a 45 durometer or 45 shore hardness rubber.

And that's kind of a medium hardness.

It's not too soft like a 20 or 30 durometer rubber is like really spongy and soft.

5:40

And that's great for like deep undercuts where you have to kind of peel the form out and under, like maybe crown molding or something like that.

But the downside of that is they're very susceptible to damage.

It's easy to tear those molds and and destroy them.

So you want to kind of, if you can use a stiffer rubber if the design allows it.

5:59

And 45 is like kind of that sweet spot.

It's soft enough you can get it off and around stuff, but it's stiff enough that it's much more durable.

So 74-45 years ago, many years ago, this is 20 years ago, 21 years ago, Hiram Ball at Ball Consulting.

6:17

And if you're new to concrete, there was a company back in the day called Ball Consulting BALL Ball Consulting and Hiram Ball owned the company and he was a very, very high level sculptor, mold maker, and he was the biggest distributor for Polytek Rubber.

6:35

And he really, really believed in Polytek.

He loved Polytek.

He's very passionate about it.

When I lived in Tempe, AZ, he had a shop in Tempe, their storefront.

They had a store in Pennsylvania and had a store in Tempe, AZ.

And I would meet with Hiram and we'd talk about rubber and he would advise me on different things, but he would tell me like, dude, 70, four, 4595% of the stuff you do, that's the the perfect rubber to use.

7:00

It's a workhorse rubber.

It's awesome.

So I've used it for literally almost everything.

I've used other rubbers, I've used silicones, I've used softer durometers, harder durometers, but I always go back to 74-45.

It's a very, very, very good rubber as far as mixing rubber, pouring rubber, all that kind of stuff.

7:19

Polytek has a lot of great videos.

They didn't have them back in the day.

They had a print catalogue back in the day that kind of had directions.

I learned everything just from Hiram, but they have a print catalogue.

But now everything's online.

You know, it's 2024, it's not the year 2000.

7:35

So you can get online and watch their videos.

But really when it comes down to it, you want to just like concrete, you want to batch it precisely.

You don't want to be a cowboy and just bloom, bloom, bloom, bloom and hope it comes out because that's where a lot of people make mistakes.

The second thing that people make mistakes with is they don't mix it well enough with with rubber.

7:54

They, you know, leave some spots that A&B don't mix and there's, you know, UN uncatalyzed rubber.

And then when they pour their mold and they be molded, there's like a spongy, soft, gooey section.

And that's happened to me once or twice because I was mixing too fast, pouring too fast.

I didn't take the time.

So you're going to mix it very, very well.

8:12

You want to take a some kind of scraper, scrape the sides, scrape the bottom, stir, stir, stir, mix again.

If you have a rubber that's not like that PT flex that set off so fast.

But if you have a rubber like 74-45, I like to let it, it's kind of self de gas for two or three minutes before I pour it.

8:28

So I just leave the canister.

I mixed it in alone for a few minutes.

Just let all the air work its way out.

So that's another little tip that I've I've learned over the years.

Just let the air come out before you even pour it.

And then when you pour it, you want to pour a small thin stream kind of from, you know, two or three feet above the form.

8:46

If you can small thin stream into the lowest point and just let it slowly fill up and let the rubber just work its way around slowly, you know, go over all the details.

If you pour it too fast and rubber moves too quickly over the form, air pockets will get trapped and then the air has to work its way out.

9:02

But if you do it slowly, the air is able to get out before the rubber kind of encapsulates it and you end up with a much better form.

That right there will solve 99% of the issues that you have with mold rubber.

I have a vacuum chamber for, you know, 5 gallon bucket and I can vacuum Degas rubber.

9:18

That's more of a thing with silicone rubbers than it is with with urethane.

And I I've used it, but it's, again, it's not necessary if you're using the correct rubber and you're pouring it correctly, it's not necessary all the time and also have a pressure chamber.

So one method to get air out of rubber is to vacuum Degas it.

9:35

You put it under a vacuum, you extract the air out.

The other method is you pour the the rubber and then you put it in a pressure chamber and you put it under 6070 PSI and it literally crushes the air pockets.

So if there's any air pockets, it under pressure crushes them.

9:51

Both of those will yield good results.

The best results going to be under pressure.

The the pressure cast will always give you the best results.

When you see the the scorpions in the little resin ball thing, you know the paperweight or the butterfly or whatever it is that those are always resin are pressure cast resin.

10:08

They pour the resin around the the bug and whatever it is and they put it in a pressure chamber and they put under pressure and it crushes all the air pockets and you get this optically clear cast out of it.

Same thing with mold rubber.

If I put Polytek 74-45 in the pressure chamber and and cure it that way, when it comes out, you couldn't find a pinprick of air because it crushed all the air pockets.

10:31

But you're limited by size.

You know, the, the pressure chamber is big enough to put, you know, a small mold in, but anything of meaning, meaningful size isn't going to fit in it.

So that that's when it comes back to good practices, good technique, doing things correctly.

And if you follow the steps and you do it the right way, you'll end up with very, very good molds without needing any special equipment, if that makes sense.

10:54

What are your thoughts, Jon?

Do you have any questions so far?

Not really questions, but I I do remember.

So when we were at Hero's Quest, we pulled out those on those vacuum chambers.

So is that what we're talking about?

Look like a stock pot and it's got the orange.

Yeah.

Set it on and hooked it and then to air and basically a little vacuum and vacuum did all that.

11:17

But I've never seen, what do you mean by a pressure chamber?

I've never seen that.

Well.

Obviously it's the reverse of it, but.

Yeah, you know what it is.

Honestly, they won't tell you this, but this is what it is.

Back in the, you know, World War Two when they painted warships, they had these pressure pot air sprayers where they would put all the paint in this pressure pot and had the lid that all these, what am I thinking of?

11:44

Like like wing nut type things, but they're huge.

That would screw down to create a seal and then they'd put under pressure and then the paint was pressurized and would go to a sprayer and they'd spray the ships.

So what the pressure pots are, the pressure chambers for mold rubber are, are just those old paint pressure pots from the World War, two days from 1940s fifties.

12:09

That's what they are.

Yeah.

So, you know, these companies will buy them and put their label on the side of like whatever the mold rubber company is, and they'll sell it to you.

But I'm telling you what it is.

That's what it is.

Because you can look them up and they're the exact same thing, exact same.

Everything's the same.

12:25

So that's what it is.

But they only really come, I think the biggest they make is a 15 gallon, which is what I have.

And you know, it's maybe 18 inches across, 15 inches across.

But it's a cylinder, you know, you, you'll lay it sideways.

That's how I do it sideways so I can slide in my forms.

12:46

Oh, I see you're.

Really limited.

You're really limited on size, but they were great.

If it's a smaller form, they were great.

I don't regret buying it, but I just don't use it that much because most of the things I make are going to be too big.

Like what I'm pouring today is too big to fit inside of it.

It won't go inside the vacuum chamber.

13:03

Same thing.

The biggest they make is probably about a 10 gallon and.

Yeah, that's what I had was a 10 gallon.

Yeah.

So you can put a 5 gallon bucket in it, but the thing about when you vacuum the gas rubber is it expands in size like five times.

So you can really only have about 1 gallon of rubber in that 5 gallon bucket if you don't want to all spill out.

13:20

So when you put that in there and you start pulling a vacuum, it'll just, it'll grow until the surface tension of the rubber can no longer sustain that big, you know, a sponge of, of aired rubber.

Then it just collapses and it looks like it's boiling at that point.

13:37

But you know, the mistake people make with that is they put like 3 or 4 gallons of rubber in there in their five gallon bucket and they pull a vacuum and it all just spills out into their chamber.

And then you got to get that out and clean it up and it's a big mess.

So, you know, again, I, I think it comes down to using the right rubber.

13:53

So now there are rubber companies out there that sell to this market that put a lot of plasticizers in the rubber.

So Polytek, here's what I'd say.

I don't want to name names as far as the other rubber companies, but what I'll tell you about Polytek is Polytek is a professional grade.

14:12

Rubber is what professionals use.

It's not they don't gear it to hobbyists.

You don't see them, you know, doing seminars and how to make dragon or anything like that, right?

Like this is for professionals, this is for people.

That do this I know.

I know their biggest clients aren't making those like some of the other rubber companies, but so they're not focused on hobbyists, but for the the other rubber companies that really make their living, living in on cosplayers.

14:41

You know what a cosplayer is, Jon?

You know what that term is?

Cosplay.

Well, the only thing I see, yeah, is people who they call it the the superhero outfits, and they go to these various events dressed up like.

Whatever.

Yeah.

Spider Man, Wolverine.

Yeah, yeah, Iron Man.

14:58

Yeah, they they make all their costumes.

Or whatever the case would be, yeah.

Whatever, Like I'm not going to poop people in People's fun.

I don't get it.

I I don't feel like getting dressed up like Batman and walking around.

But some people do.

And if you do, you know I'm not going to judge.

You haven't seen me in my Harley outfit.

15:17

But that's really who they're gearing their their products to.

If you look at their website, some of these companies are really gearing to the DI wire and the DI wires aren't going to mix it properly.

They're not going to pour it properly, They're not going to do any of the steps properly.

So they put a lot of plasticizers, same concept of what we do with concrete plasticizer being a, a chemical that makes it more fluid.

15:40

They put a lot of plasticizers in the rubber so any dummy could just dump it in and all the air will come out.

That's what they're hoping for.

Like let's just over plasticize this rubber.

Let's just fill it full of plasticizer.

So you don't really know how to mix, you don't really know how to pour, you don't even know how to do any of this stuff and you'll end up with a good mold.

15:57

That's great.

The what they're trading for a very fluid rubber where all the air comes out is longevity, durability.

That's what that's a trade off.

Now, if you're a cosplayer and you're making your Wolverine mask, who cares?

You, you don't need to make 100 Wolverine masks.

16:14

You're gonna make one, maybe two.

But if you're a concrete company like what we are, and you're making a mold for sinks or drain boards or soap dishes or edging or whatever it is, you want that mold to last long time.

I have a rubber mold back here.

I show it in the classes.

It's 21 years old and it's still pliable, still flexible.

16:29

It's made of Polytek 74-45.

I haven't stored it properly, meaning I don't have it like it's covered in dust.

It's not, I don't do anything special with it.

It's been in storage when it's been 120° in the storage container and it's been in storage when it's been, you know -20°.

16:45

So I haven't stored it well and it's still a very usable mold.

We actually cast it in the last workshop.

It's AK47 tile I made, we cast in last workshop and the cast came out great.

So you know, if you, if you use a professional grid rubber, it has longevity.

17:02

It's an investment in the future of the mold.

So I that'd be my advice is I'm not again, if your business model is hobbyist, great, great, that's great, you know, but for me personally, I'd much rather use a professional grade rubber that's a little more technical in, in mixing and and pouring, but you end up with a mold that will last few decades versus a few weeks before it starts to degrade.

17:29

Well, so I'm getting to this point as you know you and I've been talking about things and some of the directions I'm probably going to be going over the next, well, months to years at the end of the day, because now you're hitting on a subject per while we're talking about, because I want to learn as well.

17:45

I don't do enough work with enough of the various rubbers.

We're talking about plasticizer, we're talking about longevity.

This goes back to, I guess, some of the comparisons we've done when we talk about concrete.

So what is the difference?

18:00

I don't even know what is the difference in the price points of the various rubber materials.

I mean, are we talking one that's pennies and one that's hundreds of dollars or I don't know.

I'm just curious.

The rubber companies, there's a there's an old saying, never ask an insurance salesman if you need more insurance, right?

18:21

They're always going to say yes.

The rubber companies will always steer you to their most expensive products when you talk to them.

What you need is going to be our platinum cured silicone, right?

That's our gold standard.

You know, it's the platinum standard.

That's what you want.

18:36

You want the platinum cured silicone, dude, I've used those.

They're way more expensive than urethanes.

And I'll tell you, they're a lot more finicky.

They're more difficult.

They have a lot more issues with, what was the right word, curing against other materials.

18:55

But I'm trying to think of the term where the there's a like a a cure prohibition type.

I don't what's the word I'm thinking of, but essentially.

Say again outside my wheelhouse, my friend.

Yeah.

So if you use a certain kind of clay that has sulfur in it, then it won't cure if you cast against something else.

19:11

Like if you use silicone sealant in your form and then you you pour the silicone mold, a lot of times it'll it'll inhibit.

That's what I'm thinking of, cure inhibition.

It'll inhibit the cure.

So you end up with these gummy sections.

All the problems I've had over the years has always been when I've bought a silicone to make my mold and then that's the ones where I have the most problems with.

19:32

When I use a urethane, I don't have those problems.

Are they not as good as silicone?

I think it's debatable.

I I think I really do think it's debatable.

I have friends that are professional prototypers.

I have a buddy that's all he does.

He's a super high level mold maker, prototyper, very successful and all he uses is silicone.

19:52

Great.

I'm sure there's a lot of reasons for that for him.

But for me personally, my experience, just my experience as a concrete fabricator, your things done what I needed to do.

It's a lot less cost, it's a lot less finicky.

There's no inhibition cure inhibition issues and it's been proved to be very durable if you buy the right one, which go ahead.

20:14

Sorry, I'm interrupting.

Well, that's that's where I'm going with.

So just as an example, sorry, maybe I'm kicking this horse too much, but per your conversation again, whatever I just got on Amazon, I actually went to one of the websites but I can't find the price.

20:29

I see a one gallon kit of something called SmoothOn VytaFlex 20.

So now per what you're saying is 20 durometer or whatever you're calling and that kit is $114.00 for that particular product.

If I was going to buy that product per what I'm going to try doing here pretty quick, what would a one gallon kit of something that's going to be last significantly longer in a higher quality?

20:55

I mean we're talking $120.00 against 114.

Are we talking $300.00 versus 114?

How much would a one gallon kit of like a Polytek?

Are you talking about cost or yield?

Cost.

Cost Well A1 gallon kit saved to it by pounds, but a 16 LB kit that.

21:17

Would be a 16 LB kit.

OK, so that's $155 on Polytek's website.

You can buy direct.

How much is it on Amazon?

What you're looking at A. 115, so we're talking about a $40 difference, $40.

Difference.

Yeah, that's nothing.

Yeah, that's nothing.

Stop it.

And there's retailers that sell I think a little bit cheaper.

21:33

Let's see $152.

Let's see it's on Amazon Polytek Center four, 45155 on Amazon.

Yeah.

So that's Polytek 74-45.

So it's not a tremendous difference.

And as far as yield, you know, Jon, you and I with Kodiak, we should have gone into the rubber business because it's like pure gold, you know, you know, printer ink is more expensive than gold.

22:01

Did you know that?

Yeah, well, it's insane.

It's insane.

When I pick up new printer ink for the printer, it's ridiculous.

But no, literally I listened to this whole thing on NPR about it one time.

A gram of the ink in in a printer cartridge is worth more than a gram of gold or they charge more than what a gram of gold?

22:19

The equivalent is a gram of gold cost less than a gram of the printer ink because there's so little of it in the cartridge.

The cartridge is mainly all plastic, right?

There's so little printer ink.

We should have gone into mold rubber because it's almost the same thing like it's liquid gold.

22:34

It's incredible the cost and the yield.

So any rubber you go to.

So if you go to Polytek 74-45, you Google Polytek 74-45, it'll pull up and you Scroll down and there's going to be some different things.

But on the left hand side of the page is technical specifications.

22:54

And I always look at this, you want to look at the mixed ratio.

This is 1A to 1B.

That's very good.

It's not a complex mixed ratio.

Mixed ratio, you can get a cup and put 32 ounces of a, 32 ounces of B.

You're great.

So it's not like a three to one or you know, whatever 2.7 O1.

23:10

There's ones that get a little wonky and it makes it a little bit more complex to to batch out or mess up.

It makes it easier to mess up.

So one to one's great, has a shore hardness and a 45 poor time, 30 minutes great Demold time, 16 hours, mixed viscosity, specific volume, specific gravity elongation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

23:28

But what I'm looking for is the specific volume is 27.5 cubic inches per pound.

That's how you figure out how much you're going to need.

And it's amazing when you calculate how much rubber you need, how much you need.

23:44

So you know, you'll think you're like, you'll look at something you're like, what is that going to be like 3 lbs or rubber?

No, it's going to be like 15 lbs because once you measure it length times width times height, you multiply those.

So let's say it's 10 by 10 by 5 S 10 by 10 is 100 * 5 is going to be 500, right?

24:02

500 cubic inches divided by 27.5.

That's how many pounds you need.

So you get your volume and you know, you'll, you'll deduct out whatever the part is inside of it.

At least you know your best guess.

You're like, oh, you know, let me take some rough measurements.

24:17

I'm going to say that this is going to be, you know, 300 cubic inches and that leaves 200 cubic inches of rubber.

All 200 / 27.5 is going to be whatever it is 8 or whatever 8 lbs.

So every time I I go to that exercise, I always end up needing more rubber than my brain tells me I need.

24:35

And every time I mix and pour, I just barely have enough.

You know, it's like, there's no way this is going to take all this rubber when you're mixing it and you pour it and, you know, it doesn't look like the mold's really filling up and it just keeps going, keeps going.

You're like running out of rubber and you just barely have enough.

So it's really amazing the math, like how much volume there is in the rubber.

24:55

You know, each rubber can be a little bit different specific volume, but the 74-45 is 27.5 cubic inches per pound.

But that's the number you need to know.

And that's something where I think a lot of people make a mistake is they don't calculate the volume and really get a handle on how much they need and they run short or they don't order enough.

25:12

So you know, but it's, you know, rubber's not cheap.

It's one of those things that you don't want to just Willy nilly be pouring everything in rubber.

It's something that you need to be using it wisely on things that you're going to make a lot of.

Yeah, specifically, yeah, if you're going to do figuring you're going to pull out, you know, if not 100 multiples of 10.

25:34

I mean, you want to, I mean, I'm thinking I again, per what I just said, the difference of 40 bucks or 50 bucks or that's what, a $40 difference on something that may give me 100 castings out of something that may give me five?

Yeah, it's a, it's a.

That's not much to talk about in my opinion.

25:52

Exactly.

So let me see here, let me pull up.

I'm on Polytek's website.

The other one that I really like is let me view all products is the 7430.

26:07

I like 7430 a lot.

A little softer a.

Little softer.

So let me tell you about 74-45.

I talked about this on a previous podcast, but it is an issue and I've talked to Polytek about it to what's his name, Jon Stadick.

26:23

So he's a Polytek wrap and I talked to him about it and he said no, they know, they know.

He's like I've talked, he's talked to him about it.

So here's the deal.

Polytek 74-45, they add a yellow pigment to the rubber to part a of the rubber.

They add a yellow to it.

26:38

And so the mold rubber comes out yellow.

This is completely done for aesthetic reasons for them.

You know, it's one of the things that it's not needed.

It's not in there for the cure of the rubber.

Anything that's just a pure, let's just add the, the pigment to it to make it yellow.

Well, that pigment, if you're casting white concrete into it, can discolor your concrete and shift it to like a yellow hue.

27:01

And I've, I've experienced this over the years.

Dusty Baker's experienced it.

I've talked to so many people that have been like, hey, man, I cast into this mold and it came out like a little bit of a yellow tint.

Was it white concrete?

Yeah.

Was it 74-45?

Yeah.

Was it pretty new mold?

Yeah.

OK.

So it tends to reduce over time.

27:21

Yeah.

Over time, as more concrete is cast into it, kind of, it kind of draws out any pigment that it can, you know, draw to the rubber.

At some point, it stops doing it.

But those first 2345 castings will have a yellow tint to it.

So I talked to John Stadick and he's like, dude, I know he's like I've talked to him.

27:40

I don't know.

But there's they make it without the pigment 74-45 for a customer.

I'm sure this customer was having the same problem.

And I'm sure this customer is like, we don't want the yellow pigment.

And so they make it for this customer, but they only sell it in a 55 gallon.

27:56

Kit.

And 55 gallons.

Let me tell you how much that is because I've bought it before.

A drum kit.

A drum kit is oh, you have to click here to inquire.

It's many thousands of dollars.

OK, I can tell you that.

And it has a shelf life.

So if you're not pouring a lot of molds or some really big molds, you're not going to use up a drum kit.

28:14

But you know, I talked to Stadick and he's like, well, you know, it shows in the system.

They have it without the pigment.

They call it clear or something like that, 7 to 445 clear, but it only they only sell it in 55 gallon drum.

So all of our listeners, please put pressure on Polyteks, send them emails, write your, write your congressman, like let's, let's, let's get a petition going.

28:34

Like please take the yellow pigment out of seven 445.

Nobody wants it, nobody likes it.

It's not helping anything.

That's my only gripe of 74-45.

That being said, if you cast anything in it besides pure white concrete, you don't see it.

So if I pour any color into there, that yellow tint from the first few castings is indiscernible.

28:53

You cannot see it, so it's only when it's white that it's problematic.

And so that's where I was going to go was 74307430.

They make it in a clear variant and I do like that rubber.

I have a lot of rubber molds back here.

When I teach classes, I pull out all these rubber molds of different little things, cactus and different things I have molds made for.

29:12

So when I have leftover concrete, we pour the leftover into the mold.

And most of those I made was 7430 clear, so the attendees or the workshops can see the concrete in the mold as it fills up because it's really cool to be able to see the concrete.

So I made it with a 7430 clear.

29:28

That being said, they don't.

They don't discover the concrete.

So when I need to cast a white and I have to cast it, you know, with a brand new rubber, I would prefer 7430 clear over 74-45 for that reason.

Good to know.

29:43

Yeah.

Good to know.

Yeah.

But I like your other one about just let's see if we everybody can put some pressure on to have the 74-45 and clear just have it available in smaller units, that's all.

Exactly because I would buy it.

I think most people would buy it.

I think if you polled most people, hey, would you stop buying this if we'd stop making it yellow, man, nobody wants the yellow.

30:03

Take the yellow out of it.

I mean, it's costing you guys money anyways.

You're putting an ingredient in there that you don't even need, right?

That is interesting.

It'd be, it'd be interesting to talk to them.

What is the real reason for the yellow?

I mean, what made that part of it to begin with?

30:18

And why not just save your time and energy?

And they're like, oh, because we bought 100 years worth of yellow and we have to use it up somewhere.

I.

Think well, when I talked to Stadick about it, because I had a long conversation at Hero's Quest with him about this and his view is it's just, it's one of those things.

It's kind of like a, a brand.

30:35

You know, when you see yellow rubber in somebody shop, you know, they're using Polytek 74-45.

You know, it's a Polytek rubber.

So for them, it's like putting their Nike emblem on the side of a shoe.

You know, it's like, oh, oh, that yellow rubber.

There's other mold mold rubbers out there.

There's one I used to use back in the day for a while, industrial polymers, industrial polymers.

30:55

I used to use one of their rubbers and it was like a mint green color.

They they made theirs mint green.

There's other ones out there.

My buddy uses some that are like bright blue.

This is just something that the mold companies are putting into there, the kind of brand, the rubber, right?

They're all buying resins from the same chemical companies aren't manufacturing resins.

31:14

They're buying them from these companies and then they're packaging them and you know, this resin with this resin make this rubber, but then they're adding in these types of things to, you know, brand it, I think.

And I think that's the the idea.

So, you know, state X view was at least when we're talking was it's just something they do to, you know, so you know, that's a Polytek rubber.

31:35

Well, OK, great.

But it's detrimental to the product if you're casting away concrete and it's a cost to them.

So a win, win for everybody.

Take it out.

We don't have that problem.

And it doesn't, you know, you're, you're saving some money because pigments, pigment, it's going to add cost to the rubber.

It's one more thing, you know.

31:52

So yeah, please if you, if you're a rubber buyer, contact Polytek, say, hey, I really want to buy 74-45.

I hear you guys have a clear variant.

You only sell in 55 gallon drums.

Please make it an 80 LB kit, which is 5 gallon, 5 gallon pail kit.

And I would love to buy it and let's see if we get them to do it.

32:08

Yeah, let's see if we can get them to do it, get the masses together, get the pitch forks and the stakes and the burnt.

Own everyone.

Yeah.

So anyway, so that's that.

And then when you when you use the rubber, you need to use the proper release for the rubber.

And they'll specify that on their technical data sheets they have on any of the rubbers, they'll have a technical bulletin and it'll tell you which mold release to use.

32:30

For Polytek, it's going to be Polytek 2300 is what they use for the urethane rubber and I think even for silicone, but for urethane, it's 2300.

And you want to, you know, spray it on, you put the straw comes with a straw like WD40, you put the straw and that helps aerosol or, or make atomize it and it makes into a, you know, more of a fog spray.

32:53

So you want to fog it into the form you're supposed to brush in with a paintbrush.

I don't do that, but I fog it in really good.

You let it dry for 10 or 15 minutes.

Then you do it a second time, let it dry for 10 or 15 minutes.

And then you pour your rubber.

And then when the rubber is totally filled up to the top and it's done, then you take that 2300 and you do a light spray on the backside and that breaks the surface tension on the back of the rubber.

33:16

So the air bubbles coming up will pop if you don't do that, their bubbles get to the top and there's like a little bit of tension and they'll just kind of build up.

But if you spray the 2300 on the backside, they'll just, you'll see them all popping and you'll end up with a much smoother backside rubber.

So that's another little tip and trick for you.

33:34

But that's my advice on mold rubber.

That's kind of my short deep dive on on mold rubber and how to use it.

Right now, so just summarize your two main ones that you recommended are the 7430 and 45.

Yep, 7430, 7430 if you're doing white concrete, especially 7430 and then 74-45 is kind of the workhorse rubber.

33:55

If they made it in a clear variant I would see no reason to use any other rubber for 99.999% of your pieces.

But being that maker mix is white, a lot of my customer projects are white.

That's the only reason why I use the 7430.

Cool man.

34:11

So there's that.

So the next topic, Jon, which I'm going to let you talk because I talked for like a solid 30 minutes right there.

The next topic is going to be glazes.

What is a glaze or what is a stain or what is a tent?

I mean, we, we can give all different names, but it's the same thing.

What is that?

Well, there's so many of them, man.

34:28

But essentially the ones we're talking about usually have an oxide pigment of some sort, super finely ground.

There are ones with dyes, but that's a little bit different.

The so the the pigments base blended into a water or solvent base that's often used to color concrete and what I'm just, there are so many pros and cons to those to begin with, which can lead down a rabbit hole.

34:59

People using integral color versus non integral color and then using a stain of some sort to color the concrete and then the sealer.

I was going to say an ongoing issue is not necessarily the people trying to do the integral color versus non integral color in stain is that people and right, you always find out afterwards.

35:24

So they always find out afterwards when I'll get a Technical Support question from somebody.

In fact, I was just on one of the forums too just a second ago.

I was seeing if I could find it just that about asking about staining the concrete, and Gabe actually jumped in with some answers.

35:47

Now, this was specific about Maker mix and glazes, but glazes, I don't know if they're still calling them glazes.

So in this case, I think they're talking about the Buddy Rhodes products.

But here's the deal.

I just want people to know this and if any vendor wants to come back to me and say, hey, no, Jon, don't use our product this way.

36:05

I'm just going to put right out there, everybody put this as a major no, no.

As a rule, if you will.

If you're going to use water based stains or glazes, I do not recommend using those as a sole product to color the surface of the concrete and then use a sealer on top of it to let's say, lock the color or leave it in place time and time again, regardless of sealer used, urethane, ICT, acrylic, whatever the case may be, the staining items that have been applied to the concrete, those create a barrier.

36:49

So in this case, let's call it a color film, if you will, between the concrete and the sealer.

And ultimately they always basically scratch off, peel off or wear away time and time again.

We I think we talked in a podcast not long ago where somebody did that and they're actually, they're going back for reseal.

37:12

They didn't originally do the job and the concrete was a lighter color.

Whoever came through, you know, colored the concrete, made it look brilliant and whatever they want into a leather finish or a faux finish of some sort.

And then they sealed it And literally within a season, you know the where spots and we can give all kinds of examples of that.

37:33

And Dusty Baker would be a great one if anybody wants to look and and get some real hands on experience answers from someone who followed that same path and how he dealt with, in fact, I don't know if he went back to repair a lot of them, but you know how he dealt with that kind of stuff.

37:51

So sorry, I'm going down the whole like what not to do.

So what do you do the best approach for longevity if you're going to use colors like and again, my recommendation is water based or how about this?

38:07

My recommendation is the same base of whatever sealer you choose.

So if you're using a water based stain or excuse me, a water based sealer, use a water based stain or glaze and mix it with the in proportions with the application so that every application of your sealer from first application to final application has some amount of the stain on board as an enhancing feature.

38:33

Same if you're using a solvent, then find a solvent base, mix it with your solvent base and the same thing.

That is your way of getting real longevity out of those colors and wear longevity and wear out of the colors as well.

But yeah, constant.

38:49

It was literally just a week ago where and I'm sorry, I can't remember the name.

I probably shouldn't say it anyway.

Casey's like Jon, don't out me.

I actually had a client contact me about someone who again, hey, we love the product.

39:04

It came out fantastic.

We absolutely love it.

And they weren't sure if it was a sealer failure issue or you know, maybe they got an old sealer product or this or that.

I'm like, well, that's weird.

They sent me pictures and I knew right away soon as I saw the pictures, I'm like, well, I know exactly what's going on here and turned around and and and kind of went around the clients for a minute because I didn't want the artisan to kind of, you know, now look like a like they had done something totally wrong, which they did, but it could go get back and get fixed.

39:37

And that was that.

They used the stains, the buddy rose products, they colored the concrete.

They took it to the point they were, you know, super happy with the concrete, but it basically took a white concrete and made it look like leather.

You know what I mean with this?

39:54

Let's see this barrier of color film that they fold on and then they tried to use the sealer on top of that.

And at that point, no, it was it was just a failure.

Any they were starting to have wear spots any place where things were set.

The sealer was not acting effectively because it wasn't, you know what I mean?

40:13

It it it another it only got attached to the barrier.

And someone else will tell you really good information related that is Gabriel.

He still does quite a bit of that stuff, but he'll tell you point blank, he does it for the faux, He does not do it for the longevity in the wear.

40:34

And he knows that for a fact.

And then in that case, that's totally OK.

So he has some really cool staining techniques.

If you ever look at his work, he he's got some really, really cool faux techniques and he really does apply AI think it's in that case he uses a polyurethane, but under full understanding that that's not meant to last.

40:56

If if someone was to come and wear on the surfaces, if it's left alone and untouched, then then that'll work.

But not countertops, nothing that's actually going to be a usable surface.

I would not recommend that at all.

Yeah, that's been everybody's experience.

I think with the, the glazed product, sustained products, whatever you call it is they're just there to enhance texture.

41:16

But if they're used to actually color the concrete, it's problematic.

All the bars in Phoenix when I was first starting off 20, some, you know, 21 years ago, he'd go to bars and flat work guys did sidewalks and patios and pour these bars, these like Mexican cantinas, these great outside bars.

41:34

But then they'd use an acid stain or a water based stain to color the Gray concrete to make it dark brown or whatever.

And they'd seal it and it'd look great if he didn't use it.

But every place where the bartender was sliding drinks or the, the, the waitstaff would go to like put drinks in the POS, all the stain had worn off and it's just Gray concrete.

41:53

So there's all these splotches of no color whatsoever.

So Dusty.

There was a time, if I look back at the photos of the first class we did with Dusty on Dusty Creed, he was very heavy with the stains.

There's a lot.

Of enhancement, yeah.

Yeah, layer after layer after layer of color again and again and again and again and again.

42:13

Anymore Dusty gets everything in the cast.

So the color, the texture, all that kind of everything is in the cast.

And then he'll just do a very light enhancement to just pick up the texture.

That's all he's doing.

And that's it.

And it's much more nuanced, much more subtle.

42:30

But in my opinion, it's, it's much more refined as well.

Looks to me a lot more authentic.

Where the old stuff, it was good, but it looked heavy-handed.

The stuff he does, you know, now I think the first class is probably about 15 years ago, 15 years later, it's night and day different.

42:49

And in my opinion, just so much more real and authentic.

And I love it.

I think it's beautiful.

But it's, it has to do with the nuance.

It has to do with not doing a very heavy coat of glaze.

Well, it would be nice if more of these, you know, product distributors, product carriers, if they put that kind of information out because it's not intuitive, you know what I mean?

43:12

I mean, most people look at these stains and coloring additives just like that, Like, oh, hey, look, I can, I can use this and achieve.

And in the case that I got called on by the clients and I, you know, know how to, let's say, I feel like I learned how to like, meander that road and I'll be like, Oh yeah, yeah, totally messed up.

43:31

But now they've come to like their countertops, right?

And they're pretty brand new countertops with whatever finish got put on to it with the coloring technique and so forth.

And now after that, let's say, misunderstanding, going back to fix that is going to alter the entire surface.

43:53

And, you know, so navigating that as an artisan with a client is so difficult, you know what I mean?

I've talked about a lot.

I go in and do quite a bit of reseals.

That's become a very nice part of my business.

I got no issues with it.

But the first thing putting on that table is, you know, this person who called you and you're like, hey, yeah, I'm going to take diamonds to this thing.

44:14

And it's not, you know, it's not going to be what it was.

And they have to be understanding of that.

And you still got to get paid, you know what I mean?

So how to navigate that is difficult.

And where I'm going with that though is in my opinion, that's and in my experience, that's not a navigation that should need to take place if those companies selling those products would just put that information on the table as a best practice, you know what I mean?

44:44

Mix it with the sealer reviews, mix it with whatever proportions, and then apply that material to get the most durability out of it.

Yeah, well, that brings me to a point that I haven't, I've had a whole lot of experience with it.

44:59

I've done a little bit, I talked to you about it.

I had a piece I had to shift the color a little bit darker than what I cast.

I end up adding some jet to ICT.

But if people want to make their own stain, glaze, tint, whatever we want to call it, what would you recommend?

45:16

And at what point do you put that on to the surface?

And how many coats do you do?

What's best practices with that?

So making it #1 how do you make it?

And #2 what's best practice with applying it?

That's a good question.

So I I would say #1 don't add any more than five or 10% of the pigment of choice to the sealer.

45:41

And you start that from the very first application for through the last.

You start with your heaviest dilutions again, let's just, let's, so let's just say we're using ICT.

I'm going to use that as a scenario.

I'm going to use ICT and I would, and I want to get things a little bit darker and I'm going to use Kodiak Pro Jet.

46:02

OK, Well, Jet's a strong pigment, especially with the Super Black in it.

So number one, since it's my first application, which I typically do three parts water, one part sealer with that, I would still mix up my three parts water, one part sealer and then I'd put my probably no more than 4% jet.

46:23

See what I'm saying?

Mix that all into that I would roll, apply that with my micro fiber roller and leave it pretty hearty so that it dwells in and boom, at that point I look like, oh wow, you know, that's pretty good, but I'd like to go a little darker.

46:40

OK, great.

Now I move on to my two parts water, one part sealer.

Now I may add three 3% jet to that.

You see what I'm saying, apply my one to maybe two applications of my 2 to one.

Hey, great.

Now, if that looks brilliant at that point done, I don't add anymore.

46:59

And from that point on, I just continue with my normal application process.

And but if I was, I would do the same thing.

So you see how my dilution went from or my jet black went from a 5% to a 3%.

Once I got into my one to ones, I might be due A1 or 2%.

47:16

And then when I finally got into my full strength sealer, I may do no more than 1% jet mixed into the sealer.

That's that's how I would do it.

But yeah, start it from the very beginning when the very first solutions get that on and then and then work everything out.

47:32

Because what I found and what I have found in experience is as you move through your applications and move from your higher dilutions into your lower dilutions for protection of sealer, you want to lower the overall amount of stain or in this, in this case pigment that you're putting into it or it'll start gumming up and getting streaky.

47:56

And pretty much with it, whatever sealer I've ever used, that's what it does.

So you start heavy and you move light.

Makes sense?

And then start from the beginning and that way you know life happens if something did get see a wear or a scratch or whatever the case may be, you know that pigment has gone from concrete through every application process through and at no point should you see that wear as a concern.

48:25

That's a good point, Jon.

No, it is, man.

I've done a lot of it.

And I'm just saying because I made that mistake too.

I mean, I can't tell you how many projects.

In fact, during the early, you know, Jon Schuler, Buddy Rhodes days, I we made videos, we were rolling, you know, rolling to kind of like what Dusty did, mixed it with water.

48:44

We just took the glaze, I think it was called glaze at that time.

And you just, you know, sprayed it out and you rolled it with a weenie roller and woo Hoo, look at this.

And then you sealed it and within three weeks I had a project that was looking like doggy.

49:00

Do you know, it's horrible, Like what's going on here?

Yeah.

It must have been the pigment or the stain or like, no, man, it can't be used that way.

It's just they're not meant to this.

There's no bite to them.

They're not grabbing on to them.

Instead they're they they create this almost, you know, think of like a bond breaker.

49:18

You know, we've all talked about concrete and applications of bond breaker.

So when that film goes down, creating the film out of that pigment, yeah, everything becomes a breaker after that between the concrete and the final sealer used.

But yeah, man, that's that's that's the way to do it.

That's the only way to do it.

49:34

Anybody who says otherwise, I just you, you're once back to your ball gags.

You're in for a world of hurt, honestly.

Some people like pain.

Some people like pain.

I get it.

I get it.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm not going to, I'm not going to shame you for it.

But yeah, if you like whips and chains and ball gags and getting flogged, then you're going to love it.

49:54

You're going to love it.

But if you don't, then heed Jon's warnings.

And you know, because they're.

Amazing products they really are and used properly for enhancement and this and that.

I mean they can really shift projects in some very cool ways, especially if you got a texture going or like dusty Creek finishes and any of that stuff.

50:13

I mean, they are really, really cool to use, but use them the way they shouldn't be used.

And I don't know anyway, I don't know why the information isn't out there by those people that that carry those products, but.

The reason is they don't use them.

50:30

I mean, this is the real reason and all the Technical Support that I do and that you do.

When we talk to people and they're getting information from other companies, it always comes down to the fact when we have the conversation, well, I'm doing it this way, why are you doing it that way?

Well, I talked to this company.

50:46

That's what they told me to do.

Those people don't do it.

They don't know what they're talking about.

So I would say the reason that information isn't decimated in a way to warn consumers about how to use the product is just the companies selling them don't use those products.

They don't know what they don't know.

51:02

To them, it's just something on the shelf.

It's some product they bought with the acquisition of some other company.

They have it, they'll sell it to you.

That's as far as I know about it.

You know, that's that's as far as your depth of knowledge goes.

So of course they're not going to warn anybody about, you know, over applying it or applying it at the wrong stage or whatever and then having sealer issues because they just don't know what they don't know.

51:23

Right.

So I can see, I can see that the downside is, like I said, in this particular situation, and I'm not even sure how the client and it doesn't matter.

You know, it's not like, not like my name's not out there and Facebooks and Instagrams and Icts and Kodiaks.

51:38

And, but you know how this client contacted me and how they found a contact me.

But you know, I, I can imagine being on both sides of it, you know what I mean?

The, the client, hey, this project was done.

They thought it was beautiful.

51:54

They spent the money, they absolutely love it.

Then they start using it and, you know, colors coming off.

Why is this happening?

And like most of us, right, you just go back to Oh, well, you know, it was it a bag product?

It's just it's just interesting.

52:10

It's just interesting to me and to navigate that through when all there, there's so many steps along that path that could have not dealt with that heartbreaking situation right now.

You get some.

52:26

Well, do I give the money back kind of like where you were, you know, E32 or do I give the money back?

Oh, they don't want the money back and.

I do now, yeah.

Yeah.

How do I make this right again?

And at what point do I have to worry about getting sued?

And I mean, it's just, I don't know, it's, it's so many of that can be so easily avoided with that information.

52:50

And it from sealer companies too.

I mean, I, I think any of the guys selling the various products that maybe they don't even stock a stain of some sort, they're just selling the sealer.

You know, they should know because somebody may be using it that way.

53:06

And right off the bat like, hey, no, you know, mix this in a small proportions, use it this way and and you'll get a much better longevity through the project.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Well, I'd also say sudden expectations, which we've talked about so many times.

53:22

Yeah, if a client understands this is as dark as I can get this color through integral pigments, this is as dark as we can get it reasonably.

I mean, we could load, we get loaded up to 10%, but we're going to weaken the concrete.

We're going to have trade-offs for doing that.

53:40

So at a 3%, four percent, 5% loading, this is the colour we're going to get.

The client might be, you know, I want a gold toilet.

Well, I want a gold toilet too.

But we're going to talk about realness here.

I think having honest conversation, setting expectations is just, you know, clients might want something, but what they want and what realistic is might be two different things.

53:59

And if you can bridge that gap and explain to them the reasons why and the issues with doing what they want, but what that's going to create, they might, they might come around.

The other thing that I've done and I've been very successful with this is I only offer three colours as far as standard colours and anything beyond that, it's a 30% off charge, 30% on the project total.

54:19

It's amazing how people can pick one of three colours when you tell them any other colour besides it's 30% more, they're like, Oh my God, I love natural grey.

Well, so do I, yeah, it's my favorite colour, you know.

So that's nothing you can do is you can say, well, it's doable, but let me tell you, when I do, that's going to add a tremendous amount of time to the the project as well as risk and it's going to be a 30% up charge.

54:41

I like natural grey.

Bingo.

Done.

So you can also persuade them to go a direction that's good for all parties involved by adding kind of a a financial incentive to do so.

So that's something else.

Jon, let's wrap this up.

54:56

We've gone on for close to an hour now.

What is your favorite thing of the week or something that you like?

Favorite thing, actually.

So it's two things I told you about this.

I'm throwing this up with mine comes a little story.

I live in the foothills in a rural area.

55:12

In a.

What rural?

Rural.

Rural fucking.

Scooby-doo over there.

And so we got to drive about an hour and 45 minutes to get a Costco and, and stuff like that.

55:30

And so we've always taken like an ice chest and it's never worked out.

You know, things, you know, it just, it just doesn't because by the time we're down there, we do things, you know, we spend the afternoon, get lunch, whatever the case may be.

So during the prime days, I went ahead and with, you know, I just wanted to see and I picked up the largest.

55:52

So I think it's 80 liter.

I'm going to call it the ice chest with the refrigerator on it, right?

Man, I love that thing.

It's it's so cool.

So what you're talking about is a cooler that plugs into your truck and it has a cooling, so you don't need ice.

56:10

You don't need any ice in it.

It's going to cool it down like a refrigerator.

Correct.

No.

And so we've taken it on the last three runs.

I've learned quite a bit about it.

And here's the number one that I would just tell anybody if you have a vehicle that you can plug it in and it keeps running great.

56:27

Like my old Ford pickup, you know, if you plug it in, it runs all the time.

But most of the newer vehicles, and I'm called the first world problem is that you plug it in, but every time you, you know, shut the vehicle off, the cooler is going to shut off.

So I do have, I think it's called a VoLTE 1500.

56:48

Anyway, again, I live in this rural, rural area.

And so I bought these some time ago, these batteries so that we can, you know, plug the refrigerator in and stuff.

So I actually take that with it and plug it into the battery that that would last running that thing three days.

57:05

And now, so the moment we pull out of here from the house, I turn it down to a low temperature and the temperature range is like, I think it's 0°F to like 75°F.

So I turn it really low because you don't you don't have any mass on it could keep it cold to like 16°.

57:24

And then you fill it up when you get to Costco, by the time you get home, even if you stop to have a really nice lunch or dinner or whatever you're doing, Oh heck, man, it was everything was a nice comfortable 28° in that cooler.

So those things are awesome.

57:42

See if the plug in cooler and then you also have an auxiliary battery that you charge ahead of time that when you turn your truck off and the IT shuts off power from the battery then the the battery kicks in that your auxiliary battery kicks in and keeps it running.

So when you're.

Yeah, keeps it running the whole time.

57:58

So I would definitely advise anybody was, you know that if that is what you're going to do Again, I'd have to look on Amazon.

I don't remember what I picked up the battery for, but I need them anyway because of where I live and power goes out fairly routinely throughout the year.

But in.

58:13

Baghdad or do you live?

Yeah, it seems like it's sometimes, man, I leave.

I live this area, you know, the area's amazing to live in, but good golly, it's a little third world ish when it comes to power grids and like, hey, look, a bird, a bird sat on the line.

58:31

Shut the power down.

Shut it down.

No, The last time there was a, a fire, I don't know, 100 miles from us and they, yeah, PG&E shuts down all the power, shut us off for almost 24 hours.

58:46

Crazy dude, you said good golly.

Remind me?

So Eureka Springs, where I built my last shopping house in northwest Arkansas.

It's a cool little town.

I read the story on Facebook about this really famous sign painter back in the early 1900s, mid 1900s.

I think he started painting there like actually in the late 1800s when he first moved there.

59:04

But his nickname was by Golly, 'cause he always said by golly, like by golly.

So everybody started calling him that and he put that on every sign.

So it'd be like Jesus is the way by Golly.

Or you know, like all these roadside hand painted billboards and signs always put by Golly on it.

59:22

And it became like this even at during his time, like it came kind of like this.

I don't know, like this folklore, like these by golly signs, everybody loved them because I always said, by golly.

Anyways, it was just interesting.

All right, Jon, my favorite thing, my favorite thing is not a thing.

59:38

It's just something I've been doing.

But I, you know, I think anybody could benefit from it.

And that's just an attitude of gratitude.

When I wake up in the morning, what I used to do was when I woke up, I'd reach over and grab my phone, hop on Facebook, hop on Instagram, check my e-mail, you know, do all the stuff.

And that's the first thing I'd do when I'd wake up.

59:56

Now, when I wake up, I sit there, I, I lay in bed for 5-10 minutes and I think about all the things I'm grateful for when I wake up.

I've been doing this for the last couple weeks and I just run through my, my list in my mind and thinks I'm grateful for and why I'm grateful for them.

And I'm telling you, when you start your day with an attitude of gratitude, it does make a difference and changes your perspective for the day.

1:00:16

I don't start my day with stress of like, you know, whatever some e-mail from a client or.

A bill or whatever it is, I start my day with an attitude of gratefulness of, you know, looking at the good things in your life, focusing on the good things in your life so that's something I would say if you're not doing it give it a shot first thing in the morning you wake up, push pause on grabbing that phone yeah, yeah, good idea.

1:00:37

Don't grab the phone right away.

Let that thing set.

It's still going to be there.

We're also addicted to our cell phones anymore and just run through your mind of things you're grateful for.

So that's.

My well, even from AI mean any place you read the psychological powers, if you will, emotional powers of us as human beings, right, the grounding and you know all of this.

1:00:58

But you know, one way to just generalize feel better, generalize more positive aura is, you know, we have to control it.

I mean in the reality.

So that's that's a really good, that's a good idea, man, That's cool.

1:01:15

Yeah, yeah.

It's amazing how things can sidetrack it.

For instance, Jon, I got a letter from the IRS which immediately puts you in a headspace, right?

Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Telling me I need to file my 2022 taxes.

Well dude, I filed my 2022 taxes and I paid the bill they sent me, which was substantial a long time ago.

1:01:37

They sent me a bill.

Here's what you owe.

I know what I owe because I filed my taxes.

So anyways, there's no way to do anything online.

You have to call the number and sit on hold for 20 minutes before they actually can give you the option.

You have to go to all these different menus for a call back seeing, you know, if you'd like to have a representative call you back, press 9.

1:01:56

So finally you press 9 and then they call you back.

Anyways, she called me back and nothing's fast, you know?

So I explained to her everything.

She's like, well I'm going to put you on hold for five to 10 minutes while I researched this.

And sure enough, I was on for like another 10 minutes.

She comes back and she said, yeah, no, you did file your taxes, but we sent you a letter to verify your identity and you never responded.

1:02:19

OK.

I said, well, first of all, I didn't get a letter, maybe send it to my accountant because my accountant was who actually filed my taxes.

But second of all, I said you need to verify my identity for me to file and pay my taxes.

And she's like, yeah, ever since COVID, since 2022, and this was 2022, we sent letters to everybody to verify their identity for their tax return, which apparently they didn't do it to you either.

1:02:42

I don't know.

No, no, no.

You might get a letter in the mail soon saying you never filed your taxes.

So she's like, you know, we sent you a letter.

You didn't respond.

I said, OK, so let me get this right.

There's criminals out there that are putting together people's tax returns and file on our behalf and paying their taxes.

1:02:58

I was like, that's I wish a criminal do that to me.

I wish a criminal do that to me.

Please, somebody rip off my identity to pay my taxes.

I beg you.

And she laughed.

You know, she thought it was funny.

And she's like, well, she's like just, you know, I'll send you the letter again.

It'll take another, you know, 14 days to receive.

Then you need to call on the number and verify your identity.

1:03:15

She's like, we have your tax return on hold and we have your payment for the bill marked as a credit, but we haven't applied it yet.

So they're just holding my money like an escrow in limbo, marked as a credit to this return anyways.

Well, my point is, it's amazing how that can like put you in a negative headspace.

1:03:33

Oh, no question.

No question.

So doing the things that put you back in a positive headspace of thinking about, you know, I mean, it's all the things.

Obviously it's your family and all that kind of stuff.

It's also just like I'm grateful to have a shop, I'm grateful to have the ability to work.

I'm grateful to have a truck to get me to work.

I'm grateful for all these things that on a day-to-day basis you just take for granted, you know, So it's, it's happening.

1:03:55

I have to do gratitude for just the things in your life that let you do the things you do that maybe you don't recognize on the day of the life because you get caught up in IRS, you know, hijinks like this.

So anyways.

Well, now you're going to have them.

I'm going to head out right now and see if I can find someone to pay my bills for me.

1:04:15

Dude, I mean, I'll call in something to pay bill like via the phone, right?

I'm like, yeah, I got a like my water bill, for instance, I called the, the city here to pay my water bill because that whole Crowdstrike thing, the, the online, my auto pay wouldn't process.

I got a thing saying that my payment was declined, which is crazy because, you know, it's a credit card.

1:04:33

It's an American Express that doesn't have a limit on it because it's American Express.

So I got this e-mail and I called it.

She said, well, it's Crowdstrike.

They're not able to process the the auto pays, so we'll have to do it over the phone.

OK.

But she's like, I need to verify your identity before we can do this.

Can you give me I'm like, who's calling in to pay somebody'd bills?

1:04:51

What criminal is doing it?

Why do you need to verify my identity to pay bill?

Yeah, yeah.

This is bananas.

I'll tell you what.

Yeah, I want to pay Jon Schuler's bill.

Nope.

We won't let you.

Yeah.

What?

Worst criminal in history or reverse criminal.

Instead of taking money, they're spending money like they, they, they missed the whole point of being a criminal.

1:05:12

Be like they, they're going the wrong direction.

So anyways, it's funny, but all right, on that note, let's wrap it up.

Jon, I'm going to do it this week.

You did it last week.

You ready?

I'm ready, I think.

What are we doing all?

Right.

Adios, amigo.

Adios.