Mastering Your Worth: The Ultimate Guide to Concrete Pricing

This week on The Concrete Podcast, we're discussing one of the most talked-about topics in the biz: pricing. Ever felt like you've sold yourself short? We've all been there, but if we're gonna make it for the long haul, we've gotta set things straight and get our prices right. Tune in for an hour of insights and strategies on how to nail down your pricing. It's time to stop undervaluing your craft and start commanding what you're worth. Let's right the ship together. Join us on The Concrete Podcast, and let's talk numbers.




Hello, Jon Schuler.

Hellooooo, Brandon Gore.

We got a lot to cover on the Concrete Podcast this week.

It's going to be a recap of the greatest hits of Concrete Questions.

There's a list of questions that have continued to come up again and again and again, and I think there's a few reasons.


One reason is I I'm just gonna make the assumption that not every person has listened to every past episode of the Concrete Podcast, 'cause there's it's.

Hard to believe.

I mean, you gotta admit.

I think there's 110 or so episodes.

I don't know.


I gotta look.

But I also looked at like the amount of time and it's like, I think it's over 200 hours now of content that we've published.

So yeah, maybe you haven't listened to it all.

So there's a.

Chance you have to go back and listen to some of our earlier.


Oh, I'd hate, I'd hate that.


But maybe there's a chance you haven't heard it.

OK, that's fine.

Another thing is maybe you're just new to the industry and this is a question, it's these are natural questions.

So it's a question that you have and you haven't heard anybody address it.

So we'll address it and then some people, it's just it's something that it takes a while for it to sink in and we'll talk about that in a minute, what I mean by that.


But I've had to learn some of these things the hard way.

I dug my heels in like with pricing and you know, either you make adjustments or you go out of business and that's kind of where a lot of people find themselves.

But we'll talk about that.

Anything with you Jon, before we go down the the top 20 greatest hits?


The rabbit hole.

No, I mean I just living the dream man.

Like I told you.

You talked to me yesterday, so my son passed his driving test.

So today was the first day of him driving to school by himself.

And so he was incredibly nervous this morning.


And so nervous, in fact, this is the end of the school year where you're turning things, you know, your books and all that kind of jazz.

And so he forgot his books.

Here's what's funny, man, as a parent, right, And he's had no issues driving, but it's pretty obvious the time he got to school.


And then I'm getting this call from him and I'm like, oh, son of a bitch.

Like did he like it's something or like oh come on man because oh I didn't tell you we almost got in a head on yesterday while he was he was driving to his driving test.


We almost got in a head on this car pulled out was you know just an idiot passing you know how those.

Anyway, whatever.

And was clearly not going to make it back into the into his lane and I just like looked it over and look at Jay's looking like, hey, what do I get then I'm like pull over like you need to get over get this person some room before he freaking smashes into you.


But so he was that was yesterday so no man.

So that's kind of a cool thing moving forward on my own kitchen remodel.

So I cast the tops and everything, got those in and I'll be finished processing this week sealing the whole 9 yards.

So then, that's kind of the fun stuff on my side of the world.


And you're doing upright cast on your kitchen.

Yeah, cast in place.


So finally got the rest of the cabinets done.

There was hold up there.

Got them all in and yeah, so cast in place.

I didn't know you're doing cast in place.

I just yesterday we usually do the podcast on a Tuesday and you said you're casting.


I assumed you're you were at your shop casting.

I didn't know you're doing cast in place.

Yeah, yeah.

So we could have done the podcast yesterday.

We could have done it live.

Oh yeah, I zoomed it while I was traveling.

Or just hung a microphone there, put your put your air pods in.


We could have done it.

Yeah, let's do.


Look, I'll tell you what, man, we got a huge kitchen now.

It's it's just amazing.

Once it keeps coming all together and you think like son of a gun, we got a big kitchen.

That's nice.

It's a good thing.

Yeah, no, it's totally cool.





So what are we going to go over the day?

What are these new things?

The new, the new old, the same old.

Well, I think the the big one and it's been the conversation I've jumped in a little bit on is pricing and it's and it's all concrete industry guys.


It doesn't matter if you're doing sinks and countertops.

You're doing flat work, you're doing walls, you're doing foundations, you're doing footings, whatever.

Because I'm in these other groups and it's the number one question.

Every single group, What should I charge?

Am I charging enough?

Am I not?

Am I?

Am I too expensive?


Am I too cheap?

It's all the questions I see in every one of these groups.

It doesn't matter what they're doing.

And I'm sure it's that way in everything.

If you're a framer, if you're a tile guy, if you're a roofer, what should I charge?

Am I charged enough?

Everybody, this is a question everybody has.

But on our page on Kodiak Pro discussion page on Facebook, a guy we know posted that he was approached by builder to build a 10 foot double ramp sink and he gave the builder an 8 to $10,000 range for that.


And he's like, am I too high because the builder came back and said he got a quote for 2800 delivered from somebody out of state.

I mean first of all, 2800 delivered.

I ship stuff, freight all the time.

I ship sinks.

The freight charge alone is usually seven 800 bucks for a sink.


The freight charge and when I go and get 4 sheets of plywood which are now 75 bucks a sheet and I get 4 sheets of foam and I get a four by four or two four by fours to make the skids, I get some 2 by fours.

For the skids.

I have the screws, I have the shock watches, I have the tilt watches, I have the steel banding and then I have my time, which normally to build a crate takes me about four to six hours total from the time I yeah, I.


Was gonna say at least a day.

Yeah, by the time I drive to the hardware store, get everything, come back to my shop, sit there and cut it all down, assemble it.

And then I got to get somebody to help me load it too because these things are always, you know, tricky to get in.

So six hours of my time, let's say minimum six hours freight, let's put eight $800 on that all the materials, say another $600 in materials.


So what's that 1400 And then six hours of my time, let's say my time is worth 300 bucks an hour, 315 hour, that's another 1800.


So I'm that what's that thirty 3200?

Is that is that what it is?

Well, it it doesn't matter what it is.


Well, I'm just doing math in my head, but I'm saying hold on, that's 3200, that's my actual cost.

But I'm not building a client 3200 for the credit in and free, I'm going to build them 1200, you know, so I'm just really covering the cost of materials and the cost of free.

I'm not covering the half day or full day of my time.


That's just I'm just going to eat that as part of the project, whatever.

But first, anybody to come at $2800 delivered, you're already so far upside down.

You haven't built the mold for the sink.

You haven't cast the concrete.


You haven't finished the concrete.

You haven't sealed the concrete.

You are so far upside down.

So when he said, you know, am I too expensive?

This guy said 2800.

The guy saying 2800 dollars is literally just like opening up his bank account and dumping all his money out, you know, and pouring it down the drain.

That's what he's doing.

He's not making any money.


He's losing a mass amount of money at that.

What are your thoughts?

Well, good Lord, man, it's the same.


The the only thing that shows me is whomever this person is that's doing this, that that inexpensively has put zero value on their time. 0 Like when I say zero, I don't think they're.


I don't think they realize they're discounting it.

Excuse me, I got this damn cough that just won't go away.

I got like a weird tickle on my throat.

I think it's allergies.

It's been.

Yeah, I think it's a combination.


Anyways, no.

So I think who's ever doing this is in the same spot I was so long ago and that is the the simple things to add up is like you said the sheet of plywood or in fact I think a lot of times people don't even like you don't go through the individual screws or nails that you use.


It's just the simple things plywood and so forth and so on.

And what we don't look at well enough it at, if at all, is an actual number associated with how long it takes us to get this accomplished.


And without doing that, yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's literally, in my opinion, it's impossible for anybody to sit down and legitimately ask other people if this number is too high or too low or spot on.


You know, again, it's like the, you know, the porridge was too hot, too cold and just right, you know, without putting on individual shoulders only we can answer that.

That's number one.

But the only way we can actually answer that is to decide on what the value of our time is.


Are you a $20.00 an hour person?

Are you a $50.00 an hour person?

And and again, we've gone over that so many times.

Are you like a nurse, $80.00 an hour person?

Are you a plumber, $150.00 an hour person?

I mean, what is it?


And that's the only way.

In other words, the biggest mistake anybody can meet is just say, hey, this thing's going to use, OK, I'm going to use my kitchen, right?

Here you go.

I ship in my own materials.

It ends up ultimately after shipping in the whole 9 yards again, not including if I was charging myself for the two weeks that it sat in the shop.


You know, as overhead and and actually a rental fee based on those sitting there.

But OK, $55 a bag.

I use 12 bags.

Oh, it's only 600 bucks.

Well, yeah, that that doesn't seem so bad.

Well it took me two days to form it up.


You know it's taken me two days of casting with my family helping.

Plus the X sheets of malamine, how many screws you know the 610 foot 2 by fours for?

You know for all the bracing and the whole 9 yards.


So even if and again, see, I don't even know the number off the top of my head because it's been so long ago, even including all that material, even if I said, you know, whatever, So it's $1000.

Oh, then see, that's not a big deal.

I mean, why would you charge any more than $2500 for this kitchen?


I mean, you see what I'm saying, You're like, OK, so you're telling me that five days of your labor is 1500 bucks, You're going broke.

You're never going to make it.

You're not going to pay your mortgage or your car payment or your car insurance or buy groceries.


I mean, it's it's so difficult and frustrating to put those numbers to valid numbers for living a life.

So whoever's did that is circling the drain and they're going to go down really quickly.

Yeah, well, let's just, let's talk about that 10 foot sink for one minute. 10 foot sink.


I'm going to just write notes as I do this so I can keep the numbers straight in my head.

So I'm not just trying to add up.

Yeah, I'm going to do it too.

OK, so 10 foot sink.

First of all, you're going to have, let's say, at least an hour in a shop drawing, at least probably 2 when it's all said and done.


By the time you draw this up for approval and you need to send a material sample for approval, that's going to take you some time to make.

I usually make them in bat, you know, in bulk.

So I have a batch of them that still took time and I need to account for that time.

So shop shrine plus sample, let's say 2 hours.

My time.


OK, two hours.

Then you're going to when when you get the project, you're going to need, need to make the mold for the sink basin.

And there's a lot of ways to do that.

If it's a ramp sink, I'm probably going to use MDF or particle board.

I'm going to fiberglass it.

So I'm going to build the shape and I'm going to fiberglass out and that's going to be my mold.


But let's say in materials we have, you know, with the resin and the fiberglass mat, let's say we have $400.00 in materials for the the basin and let's say we have, I don't know, total time into it, 12 hours of time to build it, fiberglass it, sand it, Polish it.


So 12 hours.

All right.

Then I got to make the outer mold out of melamine and that's going to probably take at least one sheet of melamine, maybe a sheet and a half.

But we'll just say 1 sheet of melamine.

But actually, no, it's 10 foot sink.

So I'm going to need a 10 foot sheet of melamine, OK.

So 110 foot sheet of melamine, What's that running these days?


200 bucks, 10 foot sheet No.

Probably 55 I think.

No, no, no, no.

It's 75 bucks here for 4 by 8 and I'd have to special order a 10 foot sheet.

Let's just say it's 150.

Let's say it's 150 bucks.

OK, so 150 bucks for that.


And to build that, it's going to take me probably to do it right, three hours by the time I cut everything, pocket, screw it, silicone it, you know, clean it.

So I got 3 hours there.

Then when I go to cast it, I'm going to batch everything out.


Let's say it takes me to get everything ready, get my mixer set up, get the bags opened up, batch out the TBP, batch out the fiber, get the ice and water weighed, spray release on a mold.

That's an hour.

One hour to batch and 1010 feet.


Let's say it's 20 square feet of surface area.

So what's that going to be?

4-4 bags of Maker Mix.

Actually, I just put that in the spreadsheet.

So yeah, a little.

Let's say 4 1/2.


Well, I did it at one inch.

Let's say 5 bags just to put on the high end.


I I'd rather make too much.

Not enough so 5 bags of maker mix.

So let's just say 300 bucks for that, let's say with pigment, plasticizer, fiber, blah, blah, blah, let's say 350.

All right.

So 350 bucks for that, OK.


Well, based on my spreadsheet, I can tell you that's, no, that's actually a little bit high.

It's going to be about 300.

Well, you're not, you're not accounting for shipping or anything.

I'm saying just, I'm rounding up.


I do, yeah.

No, no, I got it all in here, all right.

OK, 300, Yeah.

All right, Jon, 300 bucks.

All right, so.



When we cast, what's it going to take?

It's probably going to take me by the time I actually mix cast, clean.

Two hours, maybe 3.

But let's say 2-2 hours to cast and clean.


Next day I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna uncover it.


I'm gonna grind the underside.

I'm gonna bevel the edges.

I'm going to take it to my washout area.

I'm gonna acid scrub it.

I'm gonna do all those things.

What's that?

Gonna take 3 hours to demold and process?

Yeah, demold and process. 3 hours.


OK, then I'm gonna let it set for at least a few hours, if not overnight.

Next day I'm gonna seal it.

So to seal it, that's gonna take me another two hours to seal.

OK, And then and then the next day I'll do the guy on.


But that takes all the 5 minutes, but whatever to do.

The Crate, we've already kind of talked about that.

Let's say six hours of time and let's say total for Crate and Freight.

Let's say it's 1200 bucks in materials and charges.

OK, 1200 bucks.

OK, so just on this, I have 14171819202531 hours into this, OK, 31 hours into the sink and then in cost I have, let's see 550, 300.


So 850 and then sealer, let's say 50 bucks for all the supplies, let's say 900 and then we have the 1200 for the crating and freight.

Oh, I didn't put anything for the melamine.

So the melamine let's say OK, so that's 2200 in materials and freight, $2200 materials, OK.


And then the the thing that people never take into account is this essentially ate up a week of my my shop time.

So what's the cost of my shop?

And when I say that I have rent, I have utilities, I have the security system, I have property tax, I have insurance on the building and all that kind of fun stuff.


So what?

What's that run?

You know, let's just say my monthly, I'm just going to say my monthly bill for that is 4000 bucks.

So if I just round it to 4000 for insurance, property tax, all the stuff that goes into it, the mortgage on the building, all the stuff that saves 4000.


So if I eat up a week of that, well that's going to be $1000 in overhead expense for that.

For property overhead.

Do I have an employee?

A lot of times I do.

I don't right now.

But over the last 21 years, I would save 90% of the time I do have an employee.


Or am I paying that employee, you know, anymore and paying anybody 35 bucks an hour?

So no, let's just.

Do it without him first.

Let's just say you're on your own.

OK, let's say you're.

A1 Man show Let's let's run this number on a one man show.

OK, let's do it on a one man show.

All right.

So with the overhead on my shop and the materials, I'm at $3200, OK?


And I have 31 hours now.

What's my time worth, Jon?

What is my time worth?

If you're going to be a business owner, you're run a business and you're in the business of being in business.

Meaning I'm going to be here next year, and the year after and the year after that, and I'm going to grow this and I'm going to put some money away and you know, all those kind of things.


You're going to need to pay yourself more than 20 bucks an hour.

Dude, McDonald's down here is paying 20 bucks an hour.

You know, it's, it's 20 bucks an hour.

It's weird how time at 1.20 bucks an hour was a good wage for an employee anymore.

They laugh at it, you know.


And again, we can go down this rabbit hole.

I just think at the end of the day, anybody who's actually doing this, even if you're saying you're doing it as a profitable hobby, you have to put, in my opinion, you should put your numbers down based on anybody doing anything on a professional level.


So if you look around and you just, I don't know, choose things, what's a professional?

Meaning a good experienced Carpenter today is $85 an hour, at least where I'm at.

Dude, you know it it that that'd be cheap.

That'd be cheap anymore, 85 bucks an hour.

For Carpenter, I mean just saying.


I just say so.

That, to me, is who's ever having this conversation about themselves?


Look, man, and I'm not begrudging anybody working at 20 bucks an hour, but who's ever doing this?

Probably not considered a professional.


My electrician who I love when he sends an employee, not him but he sends an employee down here.

They bill me 150 an hour for the employee plus all the supplies, which they put a big markup on, you know, So when they say, oh, we did 4 outlets at 50 bucks each, dude, I can go down to Lowe's and get those for 6 bucks each, you know?


But I understand they had to go get them.

They got to keep them in their truck, They got to keep that stuff stocked and they got to make a profit.

Again, you could do that to yourself.

You just came up with your material costs, add 10% or add 20%?


My point is that's that's an employee that he's billing me 154 an hour.

So if you're the owner of the company, what are you valuing your time worth?


Because he's valuing his employee at 150 an hour.

That's what he's going to at the billable time for his employee.

But if he's going to come out and do the job, what's his time worth?

You know, let's just, let's just say in.

This case you are your employee, we're doing a one man show so I would I would say the 150 an hour and then put your 25% on your materials.


I think your 115 hours way too low.

As a business owner, I think that's way too low.

I would say minimum, minimum in my opinion would be 200 an hour is what you should value your time at.

That's what you should value when you're calculating.

What should I charge for this project, at minimum 200 an hour.


I'm at 325 and I've been at 3:25 for a long time.

I should really redo that number.

It's probably 350 is where I should be because inflation, I mean it's gone up 17% in what, two years?

So, but either way, I'm running the numbers right now.

What did you get me?

What did you get me on the material cost?

All together with materials in the overhead 3200. 3200, so I'm just kind of base it like that.


So again, I'm calling this like anything else.

I'm working for myself.

So I'm going to put 25% on that.


So that's 700 bucks.

So right there, I'm at $3900 plus.


Well, I'm going to take the low end, the $150.00 an hour, that's five grand.

So I'm already at 80.

Well, actually it's 4700, so.

How'd you hijack my thing that I was doing?


I'm crunching numbers now.

You just came in midway.


And you You.

Sorry, 80.

So I'm just saying right off the bat, that guy was spot on at $8600, basing himself at $150.00 an hour.

OK, You jump it on the other end like you were saying the $200, OK, that's fine.

You're at, you're right at $10,100.


So no, he's he's right.

So anybody balking at that and this is the tough discussion.

It's, it's a hard discussion because I read so many of the comments and these are comments by a lot of people that I would consider, you know, that have been doing this, experienced individuals doing this.


I say well, I, I would charge 5700 or I charge this or I charge that and I'm just like, well you guys wow.

Like I guess if you well see, let me take it.

So I'm going to take that high end, take that $10,000.

Now we just put in the crate fee and all that kind of stuff.


Let's say he's got this individual's coming to pick it up well.

Take 1200 bucks.

That only brings us back to 8000, yeah?

Yeah, which is a fair price.

That's a fair price for for what you're doing.

My wife and I were talking about this last night, 'cause she she, you know, she's on the Kodiak page and she saw the, the discussion, She's like, you know, what do you think about that?


And I was like, well, you know, I was in that position a long time ago myself.

So, yeah, so many times.

I still continue to underpricings occasionally and and you either learn from it, make adjustments or you go out of business.

And so a long time ago, I was underpriced myself, dramatically.


I I confused being busy with being successful, being busy with with being profitable.

I thought if I was busy, I'm profitable.

No, you're not.

You're a lot of times you're actually doing more damage because you're not able to do things to grow your business in a meaningful way because you're so busy doing these things.


So my wife asked me about it and I said you know for for instance, Aaron, I got to check in two days ago for an erosion sink that I charged 9000 for.

And so I get the deposit for that.

And you know, I just shipped out another sink recently that was about the same price point.


And you know, anymore that's that's about where custom things are coming in.

That between kind of like what this post was between 8 and 10,000 is kind of the the norm.

But, you know, I said I could do 2 sinks a month at $10,000 each and make 20,000 dollars, 20,000 gross.


Or I could do 10 sinks at $2000 each because some people are saying they'd be around that price point, make the same amount of money, gross, 20,000.

But I'd be in my shop all day, all night, every weekend killing myself for the same thing, for the same thing.


So I can either do 2 sinks that I really put 100% into and I put, you know, all my tension and and quality and detail and I'm super focused and everything's precise and the client's over the moon or I run myself ragged and I'm doing 10 that are all half, half assed.

And you know, they're not my best work, but I'm crunched because I got to get these sinks out.


I got to get these shipped.

I got three more to do right away.

And you know, you're just going crazy.

And that's where I was 21 years ago.

What are you doing over there?


Just sitting there listening to you is.

That banging noise on my side.

I don't.

I'm not banging anything.


I heard a banging noise.

Anyways, so.

You mean I'm not going to tell you what I'm doing, right?

Now so you know Dusty is a great example of this is when I met Dusty at Epic, the very first epic that was done in Georgia.


He told me he was going to he was slowly going on business and he was you know, we would we had these discussions and he's like he was really busy, but he wasn't making any money.

And I asked him where he was at and he was at he was like 50 or 60 square foot and yeah, so he's like 50 or 60.


This was a long time ago and I was at 95 at that point when I was in Tempe, AZ and I said dude, I'm at 95 you should at least be 95 he.

And he's like, man, I'll kiss your ass if you can get 95 here.

And I was like, dude, you're in Nashville, TN.

The amount of wealth in this, you know, zip code where you're at is tremendous.


You're just talking to the wrong people.

You're talking to track home builders that are coming to you for a deal.

They're coming to you for the cheapest price they can put in their home.

Cheapest granite.


You're talking the wrong customer, dude.

You need to be talking to the architects and designers.

They're specifying these really high end restaurants, offices, homes, things like that.


You need to be working with those clients.

Anyways, Dusty shifted gears and you know I'm not going to speak for Dusty.

If you ever meet him, he can tell you his his journey, but he shifted gears and raised his price and started focusing on quality and it made all the difference.


Today I would, I would argue Dusty is the most successful concrete artisan in the field as far as business.


He's got a beautiful property, beautiful house, beautiful shop that he built and he's killing it.

He is killing it.

And I'm so happy for for Dusty.

But Dusty moved away from the low cost.

High, high.

What's the right word?


Just being busy all the time.

You know, he was just slammed busy, but he wasn't charging enough to raising his price up.

And he's still slammed busy because everybody wants Dusty's product in Nashville, but now he's incredibly profitable for what he's doing.

And that's the other thing, Jon, is I'm not sure what it's called.


I should look it up.

But there's this, there's this business theory of as your price increases on a product, demand will decrease.

And where those two lines intersect is where you want to.

That's the sweet spot.


That's where every product wants to find is you're charging the most amount for the the most amount of business.

Anything beyond that business drops off a lot.

Anything less than that business goes up a lot.

But you're not.

You're not really maximizing your profit.

So where are those two lines, intersectors, where you want to get to?


And there's a name for that.

I don't know what it is, but that's something to think about.

I was talking to a guy that's very busy.

I follow him on Instagram.

I was talking to him last week and he's like, yeah, he's like, you know, Instagram.

Not everything is like what it seems on Instagram.


I said, well, dude, it looks like you're killing it.

He's like, yeah, I'm busy, but he's like, I'm not making any money.

I I told him, dude, if you're so busy you're not making money, start raising your price, start upping your price and at some point it's going to fall off.

But you're going to be making more money than you're making now.

And you're going to be working half the amount of time and you're going to love what you do and you're going to be profitable and you're going to have more time to spend with your family.


But you need to start raising your price and and letting don't try to get every project.

You know, don't try to get you don't want every project.

So that was my advice to him.

Any thoughts?

Well, I just continue to say this.

It's a hard one because, excuse me a second, you don't want to cough in everybody's ear.


I could use all kinds of analogies and we all get it.

Meaning I don't care who you are, who you're listening to.

If I used, I don't know, burgers, right.

We all know the difference of let's say, in a McDonald's burger where even today, right?


Based on, well, at least in California, raising the minimum wage.

But a McDonald's burger is set in our minds at a certain quality point.

You know what I mean?

Like, you know, we're expecting to pay 3 bucks for a burger, You know, no big deal.


But at the same time, if we go to a restaurant who has like, you know, I don't know, a Wazoo burger or whatever, you know, we can doll up in our heads, we're certainly, we already know.

We don't expect to pay $3 for that.

It's probably going to be, I don't know, somewhere between 15 and $25 depending on where you're at and who's ever having those burgers.


At the higher point, we're paying it and we're enjoying it because in our heads we already know it's a different quality.

You know what I mean?

Based on the meat or the bun or the OR the whatever that's going into it, the atmosphere we're out with our wife or whoever on a date versus running through the drive through it at McDonald's.


But the difficulty is us like to transcend that same idea over to what so many of us are doing.

And that is, you know, where are we setting ourselves, let's say emotionally, mentally on that, you know, whatever quality meter, where do you land?


Because and neither one, like I said, I don't think McDonald's, you know, ever apologizes for their burgers being 3 bucks, right, Or 5 bucks or whatever they are now.

They don't apologize for it.

They know exactly.

And they set an infrastructure to maintain that kind of, you know, whatever end of quality that is and how fast they can be done and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.


And the same thing, let's say on the other end of it.

So whoever you are, you know, if, if, if your confidence based on the materials you're using, whatever the sealers you're using, whatever marketing you're doing, whatever you look at that's coming out of your shop, If you look at that and go, yeah, I'm a McDonald's burger and I need to pump out hundreds of these things.


Like who were we just talking about a minute ago in God, I I just forget the name The, the thing in North Carolina where some people are taking their high point.

High point.

Yeah, you know, so are you a person?

Because I've heard that so many times from somebody else about it was it was just ingrained in their head that if they were dealing with this place called High Point, then they have to make them at this cost because the designer gets to get X amount of money and so forth and so on.


And it just never made sense to me.


Because I'm like, Oh my God, man, you're never going to make money doing this like like legitimate money.

You're going to be the person still making, you know, whatever, 40 to 80 hour weeks, pumping out this stuff for the, you know, the least lowest price possible, making the least amount of profit possible on each one.


So you got to make a whole lot of them.

And I'm not telling anybody that's wrong.

But sorry, I'm circling around you.

We all just have to decide.

And I don't think it's a stake in the ground kind of decision, but where are you at and where do you want to be?


If you want to be a McDonald's burger and that is awesome, and embrace it, but just realize that, you know when you are making your McDonald's burgers at that end of the scale and make you, you could be making the most highest quality McDonald's burgers there is.


But what you're doing is not going to at all compare to the Wazoo Burgers at Joe's Burger Shop.

You know what I mean?

That's grilled right there, fresh meat, blah blah blah blah blah.

And so you may be shaking your head going, I just can't believe why anybody would pay $20.00 for that burger while the person eating that burger is like, no, dude, some days I'll show up for your $3 burger.


But the reality is, this is a good burger and people will keep showing up and buying Joe's burgers.

Yeah, so, so you know, where do you want to be?

And that's just something we all have to ask ourselves.

Well, I got AI.

Got a good point to hit on that real quick.

But before I forget, because you're talking about meat, so I did the the bromelain that you turned out.


Well, you can leave it on too long.

It turns out we we pushed it, pushed it to the limit, we push it to the limit.

So my wife, first of all she put on rib eyes, which rib eyes don't need to begin with.

I keep telling her like, get some no.

I would still put a little on rib eye, but you can't.


Yeah, I go ahead and soak get.

A flank steak get, you know, go get something like that.

But she gets rib eyes.

It's already soft.

And she, she put bromelain on them.

And then we ended up, I think we went out to eat that night and she's like, oh, we got those steaks in her frigerator.

I'm like, whatever, we'll do it tomorrow.

So they sat all day, all night, all the next day, and then the next evening we put them on.


So it's been there 24 hours, dude.

It was like, it it was like pudding.

They were just like goo.

And she tried to take a bite of one, like they were falling off and she's trying to pick them up off the grill.

They're just like slime.

And she's like, I can't eat this.

I'm like, I know.

And she's like, dude, you just want to throw the bromine away.


I'm like, no, I don't want to throw it away.

We've done one thing with it and we did it wrong.

We did it way too long.


But the fact is, you can't overdo it.

Oh, that's funny.


So, but to your point, Jon, and this is a point that my wife used to make in our classes when she talked to people about business is you want to be either the very high end of the market or the very low end of the market, but you don't want to be in the middle.


The middle is where everybody dies.

Where you kills, yeah, you die.

Yeah, because in the middle, you got to fight.

You got to fight, you're competing.

So if you're if you're at the bottom, think Walmart, Walmart.

Everybody knows what Walmart is.

Walmart knows what Walmart is.

Walmart is the cheapest place to get stuff.


It used to be Walmart and Kmart.

Now it's just Walmart.


On the other end of that would be like a Neiman Marcus or Hermes or Cartier or whatever.

They're at the hind of the market and so they're not competing on anything.

They're they're competing based on brand awareness or or brand perception.


People go and buy a $40,000 handbag from Hermes or Hermes if you're French, because of that's the perceived value of that product.

But they're not competing on price.

They're not in the middle.

They're at the high end, Walmart's at the low end.

And then everybody in the middle's duking it out, scrapping for that customer.


So if you're in this market, you need to decide, do you want to be on the, the low end?

Do you want to be pumping out, you know, 200 sinks a month to distributors or your margin is really low but you're making it up on volume.

So you might only be making a couple 100 bucks a sync, but you're making 200 of them and you're like, OK, well, I can make it work if I do that.


Or do you want to go to the other side?

You want to be on the Super high end and you're charging $20,000 a sync, but you're only making one sync, you know?

And then you have a lot more free time.

You can go do the things you want to do.

You can, you can work on growing your business to that point.

You have time to work on growing your business.


You can go and meet with architects and designers.

You can do presentations, you can have wine tastings at your shop, and you can do all these different things that you wouldn't have time for if you're doing the high volume thing, but that's either want to be high or low trying to be.


And that's a hard part, I think.

I think, well, not.


I think 99% of this conversation, other than actually sitting down the numbers and figuring out what the realities are, the next biggest hurdle is ourselves and getting our own ways.


I mean, I how many times over the years have we talked to people, including ourselves as me standing in front of the mirror thinking, well, this is all I can charge And it's been drummed in our heads like a lot of other things that we're going to talk about in a minute, it's been drummed in our heads in kind of our own internal conversations of, you know, $100 a square foot or whatever, you know, square foot, square foot and da, da, da, da, da.


And you think, oh man, and you come up with a number.

I think some of the other numbers I heard out that, you know, was reading like, you know, I do this for 5700 or 3700 or whatever the case may be.

And at the end of the day, you know, again, I just want to how did you come up with that number for yourself?


Whoever it is I'm talking about, I'd love to actually have that conversation to say, how did you come up with that number for yourself?

Not as a combative kind of question, a legitimate How did you come up with that number for yourself?


And then how would you feel?


Like, what do you really go through if I said now that you came up with that number bill for $1000 more like, in other words, you know what I'm saying?

That's what you're saying comes out you?

Know what I mean?

I get what you're saying.

So in my opinion, I have a system for how I price.


I shared that on the Kodiak Pro discussion page, 250 square foot plus $3000 to make the Sink Basin because it's a custom form and that came to around $8000 plus another 1500 for creating and freight.

So 9500, that would be about where I'm at, just a rough ballpark without seeing any drawings, colors, anything like that.


That's just rough ballpark.

I kind of do the same.

But I have a system, and for me, when I give a customer a price, I feel comfortable and confident and I feel good about it.

I don't care.

I've always made it a point.

I don't care if the person lives in a billion dollar mansion or if they live in a shack.


My price is my price is my price.

And if I have that attitude and I say to the client, you know, hey, the sink's $10,000, oh man, that's way higher than we're anticipating.

I get it.

If it changes, you know, if you, if you decide you want to move forward, let me know.


Otherwise, you know I wish you guys the best, that level of confidence.

I I I don't get every project, but I get a lot of them and every one of them the initial reaction is, you know oh that was more than I was anticipating.

I get it.



But yeah, that's my price.


So I think that's number one.

You know, I I I've seen people say, well I charged this because I knew I could get it because of the customer.

I don't fault them for doing that.

But for me personally, I just have a system for my price and my price is my price is my price.

Now adding.

So Michael Carmody, I love Michael Carmody.


He told me this thing he used to do.

I don't know if he still does it, but he would do his quote just like I said.

He has a system and then he'd add $500 to it and he would just, you know, say the quote was 8000.

He would send the the customer a quote for 8500.

They'd move forward.

He'd do the project if the client was easy to work with.


When it's all said and done and the piece was in, the client was over the moon.

He'd write them a check for $500.00 with a little card and say, hey, I I ran the numbers on your project, actually took me less time than I thought it would.

Here's a refund for $500.

You know, hope you enjoy your countertop, your sink, whatever.


Clients would lose their mind.

Who does that?

Who sends them a check back after it's installed after they're happy, they're satisfied, they feel great about it.

Now they got a check back.

It was great marketing for Carmody, but if the client went the other way and they would just run you through the mud, you know, I I I can see like a little scratch over here, 322 in the afternoon or the color doesn't match exactly to the sample that you made for me 6 months ago or whatever.


He would keep the 500, You know, that was the aggravation tax that he put on it in the beginning, that if they ran him through the mud, he kept that money because they already accepted it so.

I I get that as well.

It's really hard to write a check back after you've cashed it and the job's done and the client's happy.


But I think it's a smart thing if you're disciplined enough to do it.

I think it's a smart way to to do bidding.

So any thoughts?

No, I'm just back to the same.

You know what, So what would be your.

I doubt if this could be the final, but what would be your final words of wisdom to any so, so while you were talking, I was again, I was just going through many of these comments and these are many people that we know, you know, many people that we know.


So what would be your words of wisdom to any of us, including myself, to, you know, let's say you know, find a happy place of charging what you need to charge.

The first thing everybody should do is understand their numbers, their specific numbers for where they're located.


If you're in where Joe is in Napa, his cost to just have a shop is probably what it cost for somebody in Idaho or in Idaho.

But like Iowa for a year, you know, if you're in Iowa, you could have your space for a year for what it cost Joe one month in Napa.


His expenses are so crazy.

So you need to get a handle on your expenses in the whole, hey, what should I charge question.

It's such a ridiculous question because everybody's prices are different and so it means nothing.

Every answer you get, including mine, is incorrect.


It's not the correct answer.

So you need to get a handle on that.

And there's a book called Profit First for Contractors by David Van Dyke.

Or is it David Van Dyke, I don't know, Sean Van Dyke.

That's his name.

Sean Van Dyke.

So Profit, First, Profit First for Contractors by Sean Van Dyke.


Buy the book, buy the audiobook.

The audiobook's really good.

I listen to it when I'm driving and go through the steps of getting a handle on your numbers.

That's number one.

From there you need to really think about what do you want to do?

Do you want to be the high end of the market or do you want to be the the low end of the market?


And you need to decide and neither one is the right answers.

What's right for you.

I know there's people out there that are doing mass volume, but you know they're charging really low, but they're doing a ton of volume and they make it up that way.

But you need to decide what do you want to do?

What quality of life do you want to have?


What do you want your your daily experience to be?

Do you want to be in your shop from 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM with five or ten employees, or do you want to work by yourself three days a week?

What do you want to do?

So you have to decide that.

And then I would say for me personally, one of the things I had to really decide in my my mind was I didn't.


I didn't need to get every job, and I ultimately didn't want to get every job.

You know, when you're first starting out, you're so hungry and every job comes your way.

You know, you do everything you can to get it.

And if they turn you down, you're so disappointed and it feels like you're rejected.

And, you know, you asked out a pretty girl and she turned you down.


That's what it feels like.

And at some point, though, you kind of realize, like, no, if you develop a system for how you price your stuff, and that system is based on your actual cost, your actual expenses.

And you know that if I do this project at $7000, I'll be profitable.

But if I do it at 6000, I'm going to lose money.


So I need to be at least $7000 for me to do this job.

So you you give that quote to the customer and the customer turns you down, you don't feel bad about it because if you did it for anything less, you'd be losing money.

And why would you do anything and lose money?

So once you reconcile in your own mind, it's OK not to get every project.


It's OK if the client says no, it's, you know, not a reflection of you.

You're not too expensive.

They're just not the right fit.

That's OK.

And so I'm at that point now.

I, I, I, I mean, I get so many request for quotations a lot of times on rammed earth stuff.

And people have no idea how expensive rammed earth is.


And you know, when I throw out a number, they're like, Oh my God, well, someday when I win the lottery, I'm like, well, when you win the lottery, let me know I'll be here.

I'm not going to chase.

I'm not going to chase them because I know where I need to be for it to be worth it for me to go do those things for me to travel someplace and build, you know, a rammed earth house.


There's a price and that's my price.

And anything less than that, it's just not worth it.

And so I I'd say just becoming OK be be OK with no, be OK with them saying you're too expensive, that's fine.

You're not going to be everything to all people.

And once you decide you don't want to be everything to all people, you just want to work with the people that appreciate what you do, that appreciate your focus on quality, that appreciate that you have bills to pay as well just like they do and that's your price and that your price is non negotiable.


You know, I get that sometimes from architects and signers.

Oh what, what's what's the, what's the trade price, what's the, you know, architect discount or the designer discount.

There is none.

If you want to purchase this and put a markup on it to your client, feel free.

But my price is my price.

Oh, OK, I'm like, OK, you know, I don't do designer discounts.


That's just something I decided a long time ago.

But I've had plenty of clients over the years designers purchase direct from me and then they build a client with a 30% markup.

Hey, whatever you want to do, that's on you.

But this is my price to make whatever that is they want me to make.

So anyways, that's my advice.


What's your advice, Jon?

Well, my advice, because I know I mean I should, I definitely know a lot of people when it comes to that.

It's the fear.

It's the fear of not getting a job.

It's a fear of knowing you got a mortgage to pay and so forth.

So hey man, I really got to get this job and if I could put out one word of device or words of wisdom would be a risk.


It like get out there, you get.

I mean you never get anywhere if you don't try.

That's number one.

So raise your price, start off with something that you're you're comfortable with me by jumping it by 20% or something.

I don't want to cut you off.

That's a great point that I forgot to say is nobody's ever going to offer you more than what you say your price is.



So if you say my price for that sink is 2800, they're not going to say, man, I really feel the sink's worth 10,000, you know, So it's on you.

And the other thing is I man, I should have saved the link to it.

But there was a guy talking about he he did like landscaping, but he's on TikTok and he was giving advice to people coming in and landscaping.


He's like, it's if you become known as the budget landscaper, it's really hard to break that perception from people.

That's exactly yeah.

So if you if you don't want to be known as the cheap concrete guy, the guy that does everything on the Super low end price point, you need to set that up in the beginning.


You need to set expectations early on that.

And you got to risk it exactly.

You got to.

Risk it.

You have to be.

You have to be OK with you're too expensive.

Hey, that's great.

And then that's what I was going to say that and the second part to go along with that is a realization and this is just something we got to get through your head is you don't, it's not even that you don't need every job, you don't want every job.


And I, and again, I know that's it's a fear thing for all of us who's self-employed because you think you got to get everyone and it doesn't matter who you are, a plumber or electrician, you know, because so many of these guys are still my buddies here in this area.

And yeah, that's something in us to find a confidence in yourself that you actually don't need.


It's not that, no, I don't want every job.

No, you probably do want every job.

The fact is, you don't need it.

And you don't want to do that.

That's what I'm saying.

You don't want it because you don't need it.

And until you're comfortable with that in yourself, then you're just not going to find the comfort zone to say, hey, that $5700 sink, it needs to be 67, it needs to be 67.


It's not per someone, I was just telling you making these and to me they're super cool.

Man, those not microphones, speakers, you know, for the for the iPhone.

And you know, we put $153 price tag on that.


And I'm just like, no, man, no, these would be 353 or even 453.

And you know, and I know the mentality, 'cause we live with it every day, what goes through our head is like, no, no, no one's going to spend 200 bucks for that.

Oh, yes, they are.


Because at the end of the day, anybody who's buying that super cool little, you know, thing is it's sitting as a centerpiece on their desk or this.

I mean, I guess what I'm saying is now I could be wrong.

And Vince is going to tell us otherwise.

I have a tough time believing, like the old days, someone's going to put a shoulder strap on that thing and, you know, walk it to school and put a boom box down in the middle of the quad at the high school, you know what I mean?


With a.

So no, it's pretty, it's super cool.

It's going to sit on someone's shelves as something cool, dramatic.

And once in a while, when people come over or they're sitting at, you know, working at their desk, they're going to set their iPhone on it.

And based on that value, it's worth it.


This last week, Wade Bloom came up to Wichita and he was here yesterday, had coffee with him.

Yesterday, the day before we, we went to lunch.

He came to my shop, checked out my shop, but it was really great hanging out with Wade.

Wade's been to several workshops.

He came to the hero's quest.


He's been to Pinnacles.

He's been Eureka Springs.

When we had the classes there, he went to Pinnacles.

There Wade is.

He's like AI don't know how many generations of concrete is in his family.

His dad's, like a big concrete contractor in Colorado, and he grew up in the industry.

But him and I were talking, and he's at a point kind of like you and I.


He's got a wife and and a kid.

And he's like, I just don't want to be in my shop.

I just don't want to be in my shop.

I want to go ride all the time.

Yeah, ride motorcycles.

I want to go camping.

I want to go to the beach.

I want to do these things.

I don't want to be in my shop.

You know, he spent his whole youth working 80 hours a week just killing himself.


And now he's at a point where he's like, that's not what I want to do.

That's not the life I want to have.

And that's not, that's not, I don't want my kid to Remember Me as that.

You know, I want him to Remember Me as riding dirt bikes together and and spending time together.

So I get it.


And this kind of goes back into the pricing thing of as you increase your price, demand goes down And if you can find that sweet spot of your charging X amount and demand is where it's a a good equilibrium for you to where you're busy and you're paying your bills but you're not in your shop all day, every day, you know, till late at night, then great, great.


That's I think that's what we're all aiming for.

And that's I'm not saying that I'm perfect and that I've nailed it exactly.

But I have gotten to a point where the projects that I quote and that I get are able to sustain our life and I'm not killing myself.


And there that wasn't always the case.

There was a time in my life when I had seven employees and we were just churning out mass amounts of projects, but I wasn't making any money.

I wasn't profitable, but I was super busy.


So that was no, no life.

Luckily, I I didn't have kids back then.


But a lot of people do and a lot of people, you know they they conflate the two that busy is is successful.

And so yeah, just get a handle on your numbers and be confident and be OK with being too expensive, but also be OK with folks on what's important to you.

What's important to you is quality important to you is your reputation important to you?


Is working with a certain caliber of client important to you?

Then focus on those things and everybody that comes to you that's not fitting into those, those checkboxes.

Be OK with saying, you know, hey I appreciate you reaching out.

Here's my price.

I was too expensive.

I get it.

You have a great day and you know, I I treat everybody with respect.


I get requests for quotes all the time from people that I know.

Just based on the tone of the e-mail, I can tell you 99.99999 times out of 100, if price comes up in the first conversation or first e-mail, I'm not going to get the job.


I can tell you that without fail, the clients that their first question is, you know, hey, we're just trying to get some budget numbers.

What's this going to cost?

I'm not going to be your guy.

I can tell.

I'm not going to be your guy because you're already shopping for a deal, you're already looking for that and I'm not that.


So it's the clients going to be and say, hey, we visit your website, we talked so and so who's worked with you, a designer and architect, whatever we're building, whatever it is, a house, a shop, a restaurant, and we really want a special something.

What can we do?

That's the project I'm going to get and that's the project I'm excited to do.


So just knowing what's important to you, focusing on the things that are important to you, staying focused and not trying to get everything.

At the end of the day, everybody's gonna be happier.

So agreed, well, we had a whole list of other things to talk about, but we've spent our entire podcast on this, and that's OK.


I think this podcast can just be this conversation, and next week we'll hit the rest of this list.

What do you say?

Well, that's good with me 'cause, I mean this is even though we've gone over this well, like I said, I I everything's a series of firsts.

So anybody tuning in for the first time pull up some of the old ones.


We've talked about pricing a lot and and the benefits of your pricing.

And so I guess what I'm saying is, per recent postings, you know, this is still and it will always be man, it's, it's a difficult thing for anybody self-employed to to find the quote UN quote sweet spots.


Even now, I still see plenty of daily stories by individuals, and I think they're super cool people, but you can see that they're they they haven't crossed that bridge yet of understanding in themselves that busy does not equal success.


It's just you're being busy.

Yes, you're making money.

Yes, you're doing OK.

I get that, man.

But when I see such and such individuals, you know that I look back at those times and go, no, dude, I wasn't killing it.

It was killing me.


I just didn't realize it yet.

You know what?


Mean, But 20 years later you do. 20 years later, your joints are killing it.

Yeah, your knees are jacked, your shoulders jacked.

Because 20 years ago you were working 80 hours a week to to break even or lose money.



No, I was still going down on Saturdays and Sundays and you know, trying to keep the churn rate going and, you know, and trying to find the balance about going to get another one and keeping other people busy in the shop and La La, La La.

And yeah, it's, I thought I was, I thought it was amazing.


I mean, that's how I bought my first truck in 2003, right?

Like, man, I am, I'm tearing it up.

Look, my first brand new truck.

That's fantastic.

And now I look back on that period of time and I'm like, row man, no, I was working a lot, I was working a lot and and there's nothing in my lifestyle that shows it's where I thought I would be at this time because I was not financially killing it.


I was just keeping my head or my nose slightly above water.

I I, you know, should have made a, you know, should have.

Could have, would have.

But looking back hindsight, 2020, it would have been nice to have individuals who, like, literally would have said, hey, man, how much you charging?


5757 hundred.

OK, cool.

How'd you come up with that number?

Oh, OK Yeah, yeah, yeah.

OK Break it down for me.

Take a moment and break it down because that's really uneasy for a lot of us to do.

And then go, yeah, well, that needs to be another $500.



I'll I'll never get that.

I'll never.

Oh yes, you will.

If you don't, if you don't set that out there, I mean you can always discount your price.

That's the thing my buddy Tostado had said to me early on was I was doing all these like, sales on these Phoenix bulletin board online things.


One was called Mod Phoenix.

And I'd say this weekend only, you know, $50 a square foot sale and concrete countertops.

And I would post this stuff on like, Facebook.

Facebook was brand new back then, and he's like, dude, stop doing that, man, stop doing that.

You you need to have your price up here.


You can always discount your price, but once you put that out there, that's all people are gonna do.

It's like Bed Bath and Beyond.

Nobody went to Bed Bath and Beyond and paid full price.


You waited for that damn blue coupon to come in your mailbox.

And if you if you put that expectation out there, you're screwed.

If you say, hey, this sink is $10,000 for you because of whatever the prestige of your firm, I'll knock 20% off.


So I'll do it for 8:00, but any you know any other client, my retail price and it says 10, you can do a discount but you need to still be setting your price.

Nobody's ever going to set that price for you.

So that's on you to do.

Another thing I was going to say Jon, which isn't really to do with this, but it's to do with profitability is for a lot of years I've had employees.


I mean I've had seven employees plus me at one point.

That was my high point as far as number of employees I had.

But for most of my time doing this, I've had at least one if not two or three guys working with me at all times in the last year and a half.


Now I've I've been solo and I'm going to tell you it's so nice, it's so nice, but you need to be doing the kind of work that you can do solo.

So I'm not doing big kitchens.

I'm not doing big things.

I have done a few big projects and I had to have my my guy from Arkansas come up and help me for a few weeks to do those things.


But if I'm taking on small 5 foot sinks, 3 foot sinks, tile, you know that kind of stuff.

That's the stuff I can do on my own.

But I don't have to be here at a certain time.

I can stop at Starbucks if I want to.

I can go to Lowe's in the morning and you know, do things and do.

I'm not rushing, I'm not rushing.


So anyways, just the quality of life.

If you're able to do things solo a you save yourself the bits, the bits.

I can't even talk Jon.

The biggest expense of every business is your employees, Guaranteed, because you might only be working on client work 20 hours a week, but they're going to be charging you 40 hours a week.


They need their 40 hours.

So whether you're working on ABC Corporation's countertops or maybe you don't have any work that week, you're still paying this guy.

He's sweeping the floor.

He's organizing melamine.

He's, you know, straightened screwdrivers, but you're still paying him his hourly wage.


And that bill comes due every single week.

So if you're able to remove that out of the equation and just be so low, it's a lot less stress and a lot lower threshold.

Yeah, a lot lower threshold of what you need to earn income wise.

Because so much of the income I had to earn back in the day was to pay my two or three employees I had working with me at the end of the year.


You know, we do our accounting.

I'm like, damn, damn, like all the money I made went to these guys.

I didn't make anything.

I'm killing myself.

I'm working 6770 hours a week.

I'm carrying all the stress.

You know, I'm having anxiety and acid reflux.

I'm not able to sleep.

They, you know, they come in, they do their job, they go home, they have no stress and they're making all the money.


Everything we're making is just funneling right to them.

Just, you know, so and I always kind of had that feeling of like I'm doing this for them, like everything.

I'm doing, all the stress, all the things I care, I do it for them.

Not having that is is a good thing.

So anyways, on that note, Jon, we need to do our favorite thing of the week.


I'm going to spring it on you.


So something that it can be anything, anything that you like.

What's something that you like, Jon?

What's something I like?

Yeah, something you want to share with our listeners.

We did this last week.

You did Bromelain last week.

What are you going to do this week?


Airpods, I don't know.

That was a life changer for you.

Airpods were a life changer for Jon.

If anybody knew Jon from before he got Airpods, you couldn't talk to Jon on the phone.

He was pacing around.

His phone was cutting in and out.

You're like Jon, I can't hear you.

Oh, sorry man.

I'm walking around and I'm going to take credit for this.


I'm the one who said, Jon, get some Airpods because they the microphone stays consistent from your mouth, so you're not like going in and out.

Anyone got Airpods 1000% better?

Yeah, but no, I never, I never actually picked up any.

I got Earpods.

You got those off Alibaba, that's right.



I never knew they were called Airpods.

I've always tells you how I am.

I just assumed they were always called that.

There you go.

Yeah, I know.

I don't know.

God, I I'm trying to think anything that I'm into.

I don't know.

I mean, I'm.

I'm working out right now.

Anybody who's not doing that, you're killing yourself.


Start figuring out something to, you know, keep yourself active in other ways besides your your, your daily grind.

That's what I would say.

So you know something I'm really into right now is taking those moments that I'm calling meditation, which isn't necessarily you know, sitting with your feet crossed that that just go work out, even if it's as little as 15 to 20 minutes and just focus on that and get outside your daily grind, whatever your daily grind may be, take that 15 to 20 minutes, half hour, hour, whatever it is and gets you all thinking about your bills or the next project or I forgot to call so and so and like Yep, and there you go.


So that's something I've, I've been really into, especially, you know, this since the beginning of the year is putting that what?

You know, right.

Sometimes, like, you can't even get a hold of me Sundays, like, my phone shuts off and I turn it off completely.

And when I first started doing that, Oh my God, man, I tell you what, it was like an addiction.


And, you know, I, like, went through withdrawals now.

Yeah, it doesn't bother me at all.

Turn it off, Put it aside.

I don't care.

Yep, Yep.

But that's yeah, find those moments.

I've been working out.

When I say working, I'm not working out like going to the gym.

I'm just doing like a little little workout in the morning at my house.


But I've been consistent with it.

I've been consistent.

I popped.

So I got two dislocated ribs that I've had dislocated for 20 years now.

And I used to go my doctor, she would pop them back in and but they'd just pop right back out.

The joint has worn out and the muscles just spaz them all the time and it pulls the ribs back out.


But I've realized if I ever, like, really push myself working out, I'll be like, really, really like doing like a, a heavy bench press.

And all of a sudden it's like a, a ice pick in my back, right.

And I'm like, oh, what is that?

And I figured it's it's my one of my ribs.

And I think I get, I think maybe it just settles in and I get, I I get used to the pain.


And you know, your body just gets accustomed to it.

But then it'll like, move, like maybe a muscle pulls it out.

And so anyways, my point is that happened to me a few days ago and I'm like, you know, so now I'm like an old man.

I can't really twist or turn, but I keep working out Every morning.


I just lowered the weights down and I'm like, you know, even if I can't, Yeah, even if I can't lift heavy, I'm gonna lift light.

But I'm gonna keep lifting.

I'm not gonna stop.

So you just gotta keep keep going forward.

Well, for me, my favorite thing of the week, Jon, is poncho.

Poncho shirts, poncho outdoors.


I'm looking at one of their boxes right now.

I gotta do a return.

But poncho, you know, I bought.

They start popping up on my social media stuff a while back.

And I bought some shirts last year which is funny.

So I bought the shirts on May 12th last year.


And the reason I know this is 'cause I I want to go to return and it shows my last order.

So this order I placed on May 12th of this year.

Last year I placed my order on May 12th of last year the exact same day a year apart to the day is when I placed the order.

What are the chances, what are the chances of that happening?


I don't know but it's got to be astronomical.

So anyways, but I bought it.

I bought some shirts a year ago and I really liked them.

And then when I went out to the hoe down in the Hauler, Joe Bates was wearing poncho shirts.

I'm like, bro, he's like, dude, they keep popping up my social media.


I bought some.

He's like, I love these things.

I'm like, yeah, I love them too.

And so I bought some more.

Just recently I bought way more than I needed so I could try on different colors and see which ones I like.

I'm shipping other ones back.

But if you're like me and you like kind of a Western style short sleeve shirt, Poncho makes really, really good ones.


So poncho outdoors.

I don't get any compensation from these guys, but I do like the quality of their shirts.

I think they're worth it so.

OK, I just jumped on it.

Just 'cause you were talking about it.

I'm seeing original Western Ultralight denim hoodie crew.

Yeah, the western, the short sleeve westerns.


And let me tell you something bro.

So I got AI got, I don't know I ordered like 10 or 12 shirts of the short sleeve and there's like a lavender color, not the dark purple but like the light purple.

So yesterday I was.

I was told Aaron, like, hey I'm gonna try these on tell me which ones you like.

So as I'm taking out-of-the-box I'm like, before I put it on yay or nay.


She's like I pulled out the lavender one first.

She's like, no, no that's that's not gonna look good on you.

And I put it on She's like, damn, I'm like bold colors look good on me And one looked in the mirror.

Dude I look damn good.

Lavender is my color.

It is my color.

I don't know what what's so good about that color but it is my color.


So anyways, that's.

What I'm looking called the Copano.

Yeah, there you go.



So yeah, I like them.

So anyways, not concrete related, but just one of the things that I think is well made and worth the price.



All right, buddy.

Well, let's wrap this up.

I got to get to work.

Me too.

All right.





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