How-To Perfectly Mix GFRC in a Barrel Mixer for Craft Concrete

Welcome to a festive edition of 'The Concrete Podcast' – your go-to for all things craft concrete! In this special Concrete Christmas episode, BG and Jon unwrap the secrets to loading a barrel mixer for top-notch GFRC mixing. Get the inside scoop on the much-anticipated ICT/Prime All-In-One sealer, dive into the Craft Concrete Cures Health Challenge, rediscover your passion for your craft, explore the wonders of MOMO Modern Molds, and delve into the world of Silica-Free Concrete. As we spread the holiday cheer, we extend our warm wishes for a joyous Christmas and a prosperous New Year to you and yours. Stay tuned, and we look forward to catching up with you in 2024! 🎄🎉 

 

TRANSCRIPT:

0:15

Well, hello there, Jon Schuler.

Hello, Brandon Gore.

Merry Christmas.

We're four days away now.

You know, I prefer just happy holidays.

I'm.

I'm more woke.

That's terrible.

Everybody else like, ah, no.

0:31

Merry Christmas, my friend, and Happy New Year, by the way.

It's right around the corner.

Yeah, this might be our last podcast for 2023 because you're going on vacation.

I don't know if I'm going to call it vacation.

It's my.

I mean, clearly we are going on vacation as a family, but yeah, I'm going to say a wind down breather.

0:50

I need some time to like reflect, you know what I mean.

We'll get into the well-being aspect of being a business owner here in a bit, but this will be our last podcast for this year, so this will be the holiday edition, so everybody travelling on their planes and trains and automobiles can listen to the smooth sounds of the concrete podcast.

1:13

People probably noticed by my voice that I have my Christmas hat on right now.

They have to.

Yeah.

I think it's August.

Yeah, you could.

Tell There's no question about it and my ugly sweater.

It's obvious.

So we got a a list of things to talk about.

1:29

One thing we didn't add to this list I want to hit really quick is I've been working on for quite a while a line of molds I'm going to bring back.

So years ago I used to have molds I I sold and I would make the tooling, but I had another company manufacture the molds and that company, the owner of it, passed away.

1:48

I don't know how many years ago now, 1012 years ago, maybe even longer.

And when he passed away I stopped selling those molds.

So I've been wanting to bring that back for a long time.

And I tried other companies never never got good results.

I finally ordered the machinery to do it and so I'm just now you know, I I bought that machinery 2 years ago.

2:11

I'm just now getting to the point to where I'm ready to to release this.

So the way I'm going to be doing this, the modern molds, M0M, 0M0 modern molds, the modern molds that I'll be releasing will be released in quote UN quote drops and a drop is just a short term sale.

2:29

And the reason I'm doing it that way is because what takes a long time with this is setting up the tooling in the machine.

So if I just have them all for sale on the website and somebody orders this one somewhere, is that one somewhere is that one somewhere is that one?

Which is what they're, you know, probably going to do.

2:45

It takes hours to change all the stuff to make that happen between each one.

So you sell one mold and you're like, damn it, I got 4 hours and that one mold.

You know, another thing is I don't want to buy all the materials and make 20 of each one and just have them on shelf because I'm in a small shop and I have the space to store all these molds.

3:01

So what I'm going to do is I'm just going to sell these in short run productions.

And so the first one I'm going to release is this triangular tile.

It's going to be for sale for maybe a week, two weeks.

When that sale ends, based on the number of orders that come in, I'll order the the, the raw materials to make them, I'll make them, I'll ship them and then that mold won't be for sale again till later date.

3:21

When that is, I don't know, but I'm going to get to the point to where probably monthly we'll do a short term sale on whatever that mold is I'll be producing or molds.

If they're the same size it's easier to change the tooling.

But you know it might be a sink or a couple sinks that I sell that month and it might be tile or whatever.

3:37

So that's why I'm going to do it, I I think and so Momo, the website is make Momo MO MO modern molds and you can go check it out and I'll, I'll send an e-mail blast and we'll make an announcement although it might happen before we do the next podcast.

3:54

So I'm just saying be aware, make Momo check it out and now that'll go live here soon and we'll have a short term sale on the triangular mold.

And the other thing that's good about it is the pricing is way better.

The pricing I'm selling these molds at is pretty much the pricing.

4:10

I used to pay my cost when I bought it from the manufacturer and there's a reason because it takes time.

So they would charge me the cost and not have to mark it up, you know, as a business, but but me doing all in house now, the customer gets that cost savings.

4:25

So that's good as well.

The next thing is the workshop coming up in February.

We have a fundamentals workshop coming up and we've had several registrations.

So we're definitely doing it.

I've had people asking about other workshops or we're going to do another pinnacle, another fabric forming.

4:43

Yes, we haven't scheduled those yet, but if you want to come do the fundamentals, we'd have that coming up.

What?

What dates is it, Jon?

February 10th and 11th.

Is that right?

Do you know?

Let me see.

Here you there, buddy.

Jon.

5:00

Oh, I just.

I just realized I'm sitting here chatting away and I'm like, I guess I hit mute.

No, Well, I don't mind.

I don't mind that at all.

Yeah, February 10th and I was like, dude, it's nice, Jon's interrupted me.

It's so good.

I can just.

Talk answering me.

5:17

So February 10th and 11th is the workshop.

So that's the the fundamental class, the basics class, the day and a half class.

We we did one about a month ago and went awesome, so we're going to do another one.

So if you're interested go to concretedesignschool.com and check that out.

So that's that's the announcements and that's out of the way.

5:33

You ready to get into this podcast, Jon?

Let's do it.

OK, so a big topic of conversation lately that I've been seeing is using a barrel mixer instead of a pan mixer or a vertical shaft mixer or whatever.

5:49

You know, I'm using a IMER 360 which is is what some refer to as a pan mixer to mix SECGFRC Kodiak Pro Maker mix.

That's what I use for it back in the day.

Way back in the day I used to use a Imer Mortarman.

6:07

I'm not sure what the model number is, but it's the biggest one they make I.

Think it was a 350.

I had those as well.

And then I had the smaller mortarman.

Yes, as well.

Yeah.

And that's a barrel mixer.

So that was way back in the day when I was using, you know, quote UN quote traditional concrete, you know, quick Crete things like that.

6:23

But when when I made the switch to doing GFRC the way we did it back then, which was a liquid polymer and that kind of stuff, the general wisdom is you need a shearing action to disperse those those materials properly, and that a barrel mixer just didn't do it in a timely fashion.

6:40

It would do it if you let it mix long enough, but the gravity falling through the blades just wasn't enough to disperse properly.

At least that's the way Hiram Ball described it to me.

Well, the other part of it is prior to I I agree with you 100%.

The other issue was the barrel mixers, let's say in general, were very well known about, I'm going to say putting air in the mix.

7:05

The tumbling action actually created foam compared to the to the faster shear.

With the liquid polymers, correct?

Yeah, which they create foam anyways.

I mean, you might as well just put Dawn dish soap in there and do the same thing.

But I digress.

I still have that barrel mixer in a cargo container behind my shop way in the back.

7:26

I got to dig out a bunch of stuff to get to it, but but I switched to the Imer 360 years ago and you know if I'm doing a smaller mix, I use a column Mix XO 6 handheld mixer to do those.

But there's a lot of people.

Martin is one of them.

Martin Duckett, Jerry Mauer.

7:43

I'm trying to think who else I know has has switched to using a barrel mixer, but they're using barrel mixers to mix Kodiak Pro Maker Mix or RAD Mix and having phenomenal results.

And I think there's a few reasons for that.

I think one is a lot of people have gone to do an SEC consistency.

7:59

So it's a very fluid mix.

It's not a really thick mix.

And so the gravity mixing is, is sufficient for that.

And I think the second thing is we're not using liquid polymer or powdered polymer, so we're not foaming the mix like it used to.

And So what are your thoughts, Jon?

No.

A. 100%, I, you know, I'm sitting here looking it up because I'll be honest with you, I mean, we just call them barrel mixers.

8:20

What?

What does Martin call these things?

He's got a name for him that just I, I.

Think it's just.

I think it's just what I'm refers to him there they have a different name.

Instead of mortarman, they call it sin, sin something.

I don't know, OK, but it's the same thing.

I mean, he posted a photo.

8:35

It's a mortarman.

They just.

I don't know why they do that.

Just call it a mortarman.

Call it a mortarman in the UK.

Call it a mortarman in the US, right?

You don't need it.

OK.

That's where I was going with it is I was literally trying to pull up so that, yeah, there's a couple things just to be aware.

I mean I definitely have used plenty of these barrel mixers over the years and aimer is the one that I've that I've had that and now you know moved to the vertical shaft.

8:59

There was a couple things.

Do they work?

Oh they absolutely work.

But there's a couple things to be aware of.

Most of those species, especially the smaller mortar men, either they were set up for the barrels to be plus or minus about 40° right which meant that all the mix but essentially tumble and roll around the back of the mixer and that doesn't work very well.

9:26

So back when I used to pick it up and put like a a a pre made spacer to let the barrel come down a little more flat, you know you want it almost vertical to get the best out of the shear of the paddles and I think that's what these guys are doing horizontal.

9:46

The bigger ones, yeah, the bigger ones, you just turn the wheel and bring the barrel down almost to the edge of where the mix is.

You know, not quite falling out of the mixer, but you're utilizing the most shear you can out of the paddles.

10:02

So that's number one.

Don't don't leave it up at the 40 or 30° angle.

You try to get it down and it utilizes much shear possible.

Yeah, I I thought everybody knew that.

No, they did not.

Is that is that something people don't know?

No, lately I'll say this, lately I've been getting a lot of calls which I think it's great from people and loading procedures and maybe they're getting not the quite similar results.

10:29

So that's what I wanted to talk about.

Now in this case proper loading procedures of a barrel mixer and.

Well, how about we do this?

How about we do a comparison of a barrel mixer and a pan mixer?

10:46

How do you load a barrel mixer and then how do you load a pan mixer?

Are there differences?

Sure there is.

But first what I wanted to talk about is I'm going to digress all the way back to the basic understanding of plasticizer and how to get the best efficiency or the best strength out of your plasticizer so that you're using the least amount of plasticizer necessary to get the work ability you want.

11:10

And the simplest way to describe that is plasticizers, water and the plasticizer wants to wrap around all the again cement particles, cement like particles.

So that's your Paz lens and it wants to wrap around that.

11:26

That's what's makes it most efficient.

So I'm going to say muddying the water with our fillers like sands and so forth that that lowers the efficiency of the plasticizer.

So that's why when we've talked about loading in a bucket right, you go to water, TBP pigments up front in the water and then you know load the mix in typically at least three lifts, you know third the mix, third the mix, the mix.

11:56

And the whole reason for that is in a pre blended material like maker mix again you have filler on board.

So you do the best you can by getting it into the water initially that disperses with the first load of pigment or excuse me, with Portland cement and the pozlins, the silica fume, the whole 9 yards and then you keep loading it up.

12:16

All right.

Now if that was rad mix, the most efficient way would be and again we're still talking about a bucket would be the liquid, the plasticizer, the pigment and then the rad mix and the cement goes on board.

You mix all that up again, that's the most efficient.

12:33

And then you follow everything with the sand.

But we all know that's difficult because by doing that you can get cement kind of, you know, stuck in the edges of your mixer.

So you always put in some amount of sand.

I effectively call it using a grinder.

12:50

It's like a grinder.

You know what I mean?

Helping you keep everything out.

So I'm just going to say legitimately that is the most efficient but not the most practical.

So yeah, so pan mixer, putting all your waters up front, not going to work because, right, it just drips right out the chute.

13:10

So that's not what we do.

We load the dry ingredients, we mix that up and then as I've talked about, you kind of dig a little hole, put your plasticizer pigment and then dump your water into that so that it hits the plasticizer immediately turn on your mixer.

So comparatively speaking, that's a very efficient way to do it.

13:29

And then the same, you know, load your materials, keeping it wet, barrel mixer.

So here's some of the issues.

I'm going to say similar to a bucket, the most efficient way in a barrel mixer is to load your liquids up front your plasticizer and then and then your cement and your rad mix and you let that mix.

13:53

But there's a problem with that.

That's why I said practical.

It's just not practical.

What happens is the cement and particles can get stuck to the size of the barrel and so that is not the most practical.

So then the next most practical is load maybe half the sands with the cement with the rad mix.

14:14

You let that mix together in a small and then load the water, the TVP and the pigment.

What you're avoiding here is the water, let's say coating the inside of the barrel.

And then what can happen is if it was just water first the materials get stuck and they almost create this shell, like you know, hardness around, like we were talking earlier at some point sometimes those can fall out, fall, fall off the side of the barrel and then end up back in the mix and.

14:49

But since the paddles in a barrel mixer are not super high shear, sometimes those chunks can stay chunks and that's the problem.

So in this case again you got to go.

Let's say the practically most efficient would be the least amount of sands, which I say about half the sands and then the the rad.

15:12

Mix your cement, let that blend together and then add your TBP pigment water.

Let that wet out and then load the remainder of your sand in lifts, keeping it wet.

15:28

That's the most efficient way, practically most efficient.

Too fast.

That all sound good.

I was just typing the e-mail, so I wasn't listening.

And then as as we said, you know as I was saying and then make sure you keep adjusting the barrel down, down, down as horizontally as possible to utilize the shear of those internal paddles as best you can.

16:00

Cool.

And and then what's the difference with that in a pan mixer?

What would you do differently with that?

Well, the pan mixer essentially that's what we do now Rad mix.

I say the same thing.

You know we put about half the sands put all your cement, your rad mix, you let that mix up a little bit and then you're you put in your TBP, your pigment and your water, you mix that up and then you load your the remainder of your sands last.

16:27

Now again that's the rad mix version, but with people using the fully blended maker mix, that's where our recommendation has been.

You know let's say 6070% of your total dry ingredients.

Then the TBP pigment plasticizer.

16:43

Or did I say that TBP pigment water?

Let all that blend and then add the remaining dry ingredients at least in two, two or three lifts, keeping it wet so that you don't have that material, just, you know, draining out of your chute.

Yeah, nobody wants a drippy chute.

17:01

No, I don't like it.

No, it's bad.

Well, you know, Martin Duckett posted a comment about how he's loading his barrel mixer.

And I sent it to you because we were talking about this morning and you're we're talking about, you know, this is a topic conversation and and it's something we should discuss.

17:19

And you were saying, I said, well, Martin's doing it differently.

And what Martin's doing, let me see, I sent you the screenshot.

I took a screenshot of his response, just so you'd see the way he's doing it, the way he's doing it is he loads all the water, plasticizer and ice at the start and then adds the dry.

What's the downside to doing it that way?

17:36

Well.

That's what I was saying.

The downside of doing that?

I mean, the reality is that would be the most efficient from a chemistry point of view, but it's not the most efficient from a practical point of view because what can happen, and I've seen it, I can't tell you how many times over the years using a barrel mixer is as the water.

17:59

It looks like I'm getting a delivery of rock going on.

I just heard a Big Bang.

Yeah, me too.

Yeah, as the water, let's say, coats the inside of that drum, What can happen is some of your cement and rad mix and stuff like that will literally attach to that wet drum.

18:17

And then as more water comes around and splashes over whatever got stuck to the drum, it literally kind of crusts it in there.

At some point, maybe it'll break away and fall back into the mix, but when that happens, sometimes those chunks remain chunks.

18:36

You see what I'm saying?

And then you don't realize it until after you got your cast going.

So to to some degree, some amount of sand should be on board to act as a grinder, if you will, and helps prevent a big part of that.

Yeah, I I remember that happening when I used to do Quick Create and the old school buddy Roads bagged mix way back in the day was, yeah, if you put all the water and you put that in, you get that layer that caked on layer.

19:03

And it would, especially with the quikrete mixes with a big big gravel in there, it eventually would take it off.

But you'd have to let it mix an extra, you know, 5-10 minutes to really get it to clean it off.

And I'd stop the mixer and take something, scrape it off you.

Know.

Reach in there and scrape it.

19:19

Yeah, Yep, Yep.

And then hope, hope that they, it didn't stay chunks like in some way because you know those paddles in a in a barrel mixer, I don't know, comparatively, they're just not the highest shear, you know what I mean?

19:34

They're not like a true physical shear.

So if chunks end up remaining through there, as we've all seen those mixers kind of flow through the paddles, the chunks will flow right through there as well.

They don't break up as easily.

Yeah.

19:49

Yeah.

So years and years ago Maximizer the company out of Texas that was doing a lightweight mix.

I don't know if they're even still around, but the whole idea in fact I think they tried to patent it.

20:05

What I'm going to talk about here in a second, but you know they found out they couldn't patent it because these kind of things were already happening.

But people couldn't figure out like how can these guys get all this shale like aggregate in but the shale was not absorbing all the moisture and what they found was by putting things like.

20:26

Silica fume, or anyway, let's just say really fine particle.

The fine particle would coat that shell aggregate and then prevent a lot of your water loss being absorbed into the shale, you know, in the cracks and crevices and just around it in general.

20:44

That same philosophy can be said with any sands.

So what you don't want to do is load all your sands up front and sands alone.

And I'm trying to think as I'm saying this, I think you reminded me who actually did that or told people that was the best way to do it.

21:02

But it's not.

So you don't want to put all your sands up front with the idea that you put your water in and somehow the sands are going to absorb a certain or get wet out by that water and then load your plasticizer and so forth on top of that because plasticizer has no effect on the sands.

21:21

What we what you will end up doing under that circumstance is yes, you will get some of that sand to absorb your water.

That's what we call absorption ratio.

And when that happens, that amount of water now has or let's say can't help with hydration and can't help with workability.

21:39

Take it a step further when you put your plasticizer up that early and then disperse it through the water, and then if any of it coats the sand, now you've lost, let's say at least 2025% of the strength of your plasticizer, because the plasticizer actually you want effective against your cement.

22:01

You know, your cement, your fine particle, you know, things like that.

Not the sands.

Makes.

Sense.

So the the reverse Yeah, sands.

The best way would be sands added last, but that's not really practical because the, you know, the problem with things like sticking in the mixer or even in the vertical shaft dripping out the chute.

22:18

So that's just not a practical way of doing it.

So you try to load just enough sand to keep things, you know, let's say ground up and not sticking, but not all the sands up front.

Gotcha.

And that was one of the questions I got from somebody who who I actually owe a phone call to Jason, I think it's Jason who was asking me about this.

22:42

And I had no idea.

It's one of those like when I'm doing tech support and I'll let you know the typical questions, what was your loading, you know, whatever mixed temperature, etcetera, etcetera.

And we ran through that.

I'm like, man, that all looks right.

It seems weird.

So maybe your water, you know, do you have any hard water or really softened water which would upset the strength of the plasticizer?

23:04

And that's when I just say, hey, just just give me a start to finish.

And he did.

And that was one of the things.

He was loading all the sands up front, the plasticizer, the water.

And I'm like, OK, well, there it is.

There's your issue.

Yeah.

So whoever came up with that to put that information out there, Yeah, that's that is just not the way to do it.

23:26

Well, I'm going to say from a chemistry standpoint, an efficiency standpoint, that is not the way you want to do it.

Is there anything else you want to add to this discussion, Sean?

No, I mean, I got rid of my barrel mixers a long time ago, but then I start thinking like, hey, wow, maybe I'll look for a used one.

23:43

But I got enough mixers, need more mixers.

Plus I love that 120 plus I'm using that for everything now, so.

Yeah, well, I see the benefit of the barrel mixer.

I mean for me the main benefit is how quickly you can clean it in comparison to the pan to the Imer 360, because that 360, realistically when I get done mixing, I'm going to spend 15 minutes cleaning that thing, 20 minutes maybe of just getting under everything, scrubbing here, scraping over here and then I squeeze it all out and you know wipe it with WD40 so it doesn't rust and all that kind of stuff really see I.

24:17

Remember, this is what I've been doing.

I think we've talked about this and I actually got this from Ron Mills in Texas.

His a little electric pressure washer.

Yeah, it sounds like pure hell.

It sounds like it's going to spray all over my damn shop.

Oh no, zippity Doo dah, cling cling clean, man.

24:34

It was done, yeah.

So that's what I do.

I don't know.

I have a feeling it's going to end up on the walls.

It's going to end up on the ceiling.

You know, mix splattered everywhere.

It doesn't sound like a good idea, Just.

Don't use it like guys do when they stand in front of a urinal and go pee.

24:51

It doesn't.

You don't have to turn it loose everywhere, man.

Just like just just put it right into the mixer, yeah?

Then it doesn't get all over the floor and on the wall and.

Just put it in.

Just put it in.

25:08

Just put it in just.

Put it in Jon Treat.

It like, you know what you're doing.

You know what I mean?

Not like you're the first time standing up to a urinal and just like.

Yeah, yes, I know what you're talking about.

I do know what I'm talking about, yeah.

I know what you're talking about.

25:24

That's the one downside of public restrooms, man.

They're just gross.

Well, someone downside of urinals because I had a urinal in my shop.

I had a urinal in my shop in in Eureka Springs and we do classes and you go in there like who's peeing on the floor in here?

Like who?

Who's missing the urinal.

25:40

But every time I'd have a class, I'd go in there and be pee on the floor.

I I never quite understood that.

Are people standing back like the refeed from the urinal?

Are they watching videos on your phone and just not even paying attention?

Looking around, right, You start looking around and trying to get all the guys and looking right in the eye because you know how you're like your dog knows when it did something bad and their heads down and they're just waiting for it.

26:06

That's when you start looking at all the attendees and like, all right man.

But is it?

Yeah, you go into any public restroom and there's always pee underneath the urine and you're like, what is going on here?

What is going on?

Yeah, I mean, you came this far.

26:22

You came all the way up to it all the way, but you didn't make that last inch, you know?

And maybe that's the problem.

Maybe.

Maybe, Maybe it's just maybe it's just not long enough.

Well, it's either got her.

You know, like when you blow up a balloon, you blow up a balloon and then you just turn it loose.

26:41

It's all.

I mean, maybe that's what people are doing just.

You got there but that last inch.

Gotcha.

You came all this way.

You walked all the way.

Here.

I know.

I'm just saying.

I'm just saying, you know, I'm just saying.

I'm just saying, all right, so that was how to load a mixer, OK.

27:00

We have another really interesting thing to discuss and that is you've been working on a new version of ICT for some time.

I've been using it and I love it and other people have been using it that you've sent to test.

But we've been, you've been working on this new version and we're going to be releasing it next year, but we're thinking about getting it out if somebody's interested, if you're listening and you use ICT and you're interested in getting this new version, it's not free.

27:28

You're still going to have to buy it.

But you can be an early user of it and give us, you know, your your feedback on it, but you want to talk about that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

See, this is where I hate using the word new.

I wouldn't say it was new.

Here's what I'm going to say so.

27:44

It's brand new, Jon.

It's never been used before.

It's brand.

New.

It's never been done.

Yeah.

So actually, well, that is true from a chemistry standpoint.

So since since coming out with the prime and this emulsion chemistry, I've been working diligently trying to figure out how to make the emulsions chemistry stable into a back into a single component mix.

28:09

So then as everybody's talked to me, you know, I use this stuff, I use it and I have to admit from a Jon Schuler point of view in my shop when I'm ceiling I get a call from somebody.

I stopped to do some tech support as I'm stealing a vanity or whatever the case may be.

28:26

And then I got to look back and be like, damn it, where I'm at, you know, do I need to put one more prime where I'm at, That's where I've really tried to teach people based on visual cues versus, you know, whatever applicator or roller or whatever you still had sitting there in your ceiling area.

28:44

So I'm going with that is there are sometimes when even me, I've forgotten where I'm at, I ended up an hour long conversation talking about someone and how to load their barrel mixer, you know, to get the most out of the plasticizer, etcetera, etcetera.

So all the way back when I really wanted to get the chemistry back into a single component instead of a A2 step process, I've done that and and then from there, you know, maintain stability.

29:13

So you know everything's gone well over a year from complete stability.

And So what I want to do is starting next year's, introduce that back to people as a single component.

Prime will still be available for for everybody who like Prime and perfectly happy using Prime.

29:33

But I'm gonna get the protect and the satin formulas back into the ability to both complement the Prime but be a single component type of sealer.

That's really where I'm going and so I want to get this stuff into people's hands and see how they feel about it.

29:52

Application steps and techniques will still remain the same.

The only difference would be you'd be using the sealer from start to finish, which technically has merged the prime into the chemistry and and those people who don't can still use the prime and the sealer, whatever works for them.

30:11

Well, I used it for the conference table up in the meeting room here.

That we that I I say we I'm doing it again.

I was talking about this last week that I built for the last workshop we did and I asked you to send me this all in one sealer.

30:28

Gosh darn it.

I got this microphone in a weird spot again.

I asked you to send me this all in one sealer instead of doing, you know, the prime separately.

And so I used that for that and I sealed it and we were using it less than three days later, like 2 1/2 days later, we're on it after I sealed it.

30:47

And you know, I was a little bit worried, to be honest, because it's the first time using it.

And people had water bottles and glass bottles and fast food and whatever, you know, coffee cups.

And I'm just watching these water bottles sit there all day and sweat.

You know, they're dripping water.

31:02

And just sitting there, I'm like.

Don't say anything.

Don't act like you noticed.

Yeah, I'm just like, you know, I'm just kind of freaking out a little bit because first time I don't, I don't have any frame of reference yet.

And I'll tell you, I was very, very impressed and surprised at how amazing it was.

31:21

It was as good as it's ever been, you know?

End of the day, I'd pick up the water bottles, wipe off, no darkening, you know, the table looks perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect.

So a class came in, They used it just like that.

I didn't tell anybody that this was all in one sealer.

31:38

I didn't tell anybody.

I just sealed it two days before, you know, just everybody just use it like you would in the other table.

And so I didn't say anything.

I just watched and it performed beautifully and so and I also sealed the the window stools, these sill plates that are down here in the office.

31:57

I'm looking at them right now and I've been setting coffee cups, water bottles, you know, whatever on those every day and just let them set.

And again they're they're performing absolutely perfectly.

So I'm a fan of the all in one it.

It is one less thing to have on the shelf if you're a customer.

32:15

You know it's one of our kind of our driving mantras and you know something we really focused on is simplifying the process.

And so when we did Kodiak Pro, instead of having an ECC mix and a clay mix and a spray bowl mix and all these different bagged mixes, we said let's do one mix and then we adjust the plasticizer to get the consistency.

32:35

And so with this, you know, ultimately, I agree that there's people that prefer to do the prime the way they've always done it.

But I think most people in time will merge over to the all in one because it's, you know, you don't have to buy 2 products.

32:51

There's less things to to have a shelf life of, but also it's just a easier, quicker process in my opinion, so.

Yeah, that's exactly.

That's why I initially well, it's just the nature of me, anybody who's known me long enough.

As soon as I put the one together I'm like hey this is awesome, but why can I get it into this?

33:12

Why?

And yeah, that took some time, you know, and some some real interesting chemical moves to make that happen.

But but I love it.

I mean, I really like it.

Yeah, I I probably have plus or minus 1418 projects out there that go back from the very beginning.

33:36

Fortunately, I have clients that are totally cool like Oh yeah, yeah, Jon, no problem.

Can you can you come in and reseal it if it doesn't work?

And I'm like, yeah.

And no, they it's let's say in field and in total use it's been doing fantastic.

33:52

So I'm really looking forward to put this in something more people's hands and you know, get everybody get the feedback as as we keep moving along.

So if you want to get down on that, contact Jon, contact Jon.

34:07

Tell him you want to get the new all in one.

I'm going to keep calling it new.

You want the, you want the new stuff, the new all in one sealer.

He changed it.

Dude, every year Apple comes out the new iPhone and people go crazy for it.

34:23

You know they want the newest and this is this is a new iteration of ICT.

Instead of having 2 stand alone products that you use, you have one product.

How's that a bad thing?

That's a good thing.

Oh, no, I'm excited about it now because, you know, because I talked to you about it.

I I think this coming year, not.

34:39

I think 2024 is going to have some slow introductions of some very unique and innovative chemistries that I'm very excited about.

Yeah.

And this is one.

This is the first one I want to get into everybody's hands.

34:54

Well, just my opinion, innovation and moving the ball forward is a good thing.

You don't want to leave it, you know, 50 yards behind you because you got that far.

But now I'm just going to stop right there.

You know, I can see the goal post, but we're going to stop right here.

This is good enough.

No, it's not.

Keep going, keep going.

35:11

And that's that's.

I think that's the key to anybody's well-being is, and I can't remember his name.

I really liked him.

He put the tattoo member Stay hungry and basically what he was saying.

Justin.

Justin.

Yeah, that's right, Justin.

Keep striving.

You know, don't.

35:27

Don't get complacent.

Two was it 2 stone 2 stone or two dogs 2 stone I.

Don't remember?

Yeah, he's in Canada.

Justin something.

I can't remember his last name at the moment, but two something?

It was either 2 stone or two dogs.

35:43

I feel like it's two stone, but I could be wrong on that.

Anyway, I.

Don't even know if he's still doing it.

But that saying I like and that that's undeniably where I'm at is the moment I reach something I I don't.

I don't even sit down to take a breather.

36:00

I just kind of like great, that looks awesome, great.

Now let's keep going.

What's the next level?

Where can we take this?

Yeah, I mean that's if you stop, if you're not innovating and you're not advancing then you're dying, you know then you're you're just you're stagnant and stagnant ultimately will be death to anybody.

36:22

So you need to keep advancing whether it's your company, whether it's your product offerings, whether it's if you're doing materials, the the chemistry of your products, the make up of your products which brings me to my last topic Jon that I want to talk about.

It's actually kind of a multi pronged topic.

36:37

There's a few different things to discuss about it, but two podcasts ago we talked about our philanthropic, the kind of well-being initiative that we want to focus on with Kodak Pro called Craft Concrete Cures.

And you know, we're, we're working on that.

36:53

But you know, you are focused on your health and I need to focus on my health.

I've gained some, you know, my my belt is now two holes bigger than it was the start of last year.

The problem?

Belt struggling?

37:09

Dude, my belt is struggling.

Let me tell you my problem.

My problem was I wore swimsuits all summer, and they're elastic, right?

So there's no frame of reference.

And I don't ever get on a scale, but I'm like, damn, I look good, right?

Every day put on my swimsuit, my flip flops, my shirt.

37:24

And that's what I wore to work every day.

But then come the fall, when it gets cold, I put on my my jeans and a belt.

I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, what's going on here?

This isn't good.

Two holes down the line, right?

So over the summer I'd I'd gotten a little carried away.

37:40

So I do need to focus on my on my health.

It's like when you put a tattoo on your belly and just when you think man, this tattoo seems like it's getting faded.

No dude, it's not faded.

I'm.

Just stretching out, the butterfly becomes an eagle.

Yes, you and I were talking about this and you know you're all about challenges.

38:00

You do this with your own family.

You guys feel like health challenges and different things and so you know you're saying like dude, me and you let's let's let's you know track each other's progress and and you know set like essentially a goal and track and like, yeah, that's cool.

And and then we started thinking about how do we incorporate this into the Craft concrete cures.

38:18

And so I found an app and I think it's what we're going to use.

It's called Better Together.

It's on the App Store for iPhone.

It's probably on Android as well.

I haven't checked, but it's called Better Together and essentially we're able to set up a group and we can all track our progress.

Now it's based on the honor system.

38:34

You're going to have to be honest with your, you know, your your readings, your weight and you know, I think we can track different metrics on it, body fat percentage, things like that.

But you know, we should set a challenge, maybe a 30 day challenge, a 60 day challenge and a 90 day challenge and have an award for who wins each one of those.

38:57

Yeah, that'd be fun.

And anybody wants to get involved, yeah, if if you're a listener and you want to get involved, we'd love to have you as part of this challenge.

And and you know, we can all get healthier together.

And I think it's more fun when it's kind of a competition, you know?

Well that always makes, you know it just adds a a bit of excitement to it.

39:16

I think like any of us like when Kevin McDonald he was and I think he's still doing an advocate of that 75 strong.

And I believe that's what it was called and it was the idea to take 75 days of really self-care is what it was And it added a few things like you know every day read three books, you know 3 pages in a book and every day write down something that you're thankful for or you know these kind of things And along with that was the health and fitness type of stuff and but here's the thing, right.

39:50

I would try it a few times, even though I'm doing my, you know, workouts and stuff and it just would never catch on.

And even though I'm used to working out by myself, there's times that when my buddy of mine named Tim, he comes down and we work out together, you just get a better workout.

40:07

Not because you're necessarily pushing each other, it's just it's just having somebody else with you.

It adds a little bit to it.

That keeps you inspired and and that's what I see something like this doing is it keeps you going, right.

40:25

I mean, as simple as it sounds.

And we've talked about this with employees, like, I hate it.

Now I have to be there at at 8:00 because I told them.

But see, when you make, when I make that appointment at 3:00 to go work out, it keeps me honest.

You know what I mean?

Like, hey, man, I got to work out at 3:00.

40:41

We'll be there at 3:00 because he's going to be waiting on me.

And that's where I see this and I and I hope people claim on because self-care, but you know the emotional, physical, you know that's also a big part of what I hate to say.

40:58

I I really think Kodiak also stands for not just the materials, you know, being top notch and premium.

If you look, if you look around at this core of individuals, big or small and those that come on board, even this week, you know, talking to, you know, 4 new customers this week, which seems amazing to me since Christmas is right around the corner.

41:23

The mentality and you know and awareness and it's pretty cool, man.

It's pretty cool.

So that's where I see this fitting in as part of that.

Yeah.

Well, health is a big part of what we focus on as far as materials.

41:39

And so last year we discussed RAD Mix and how it can be used to make silica free concrete.

And people were, like, laughing at that.

They thought it was hilarious.

Oh.

Man, people got angry.

Oh, they're they're hyenas, you know.

41:54

Oh, you can't do that.

No, we can.

We can.

And here's how you do it.

And we have this product that contains 0 silica and we can guide you with the sands to use that contain no silica and you can have silica free concrete.

And people thought we were crazy.

They you know, that's totally unnecessary.

42:09

You guys are just stocking fear fear mongering.

Remember that one, right?

Yeah, it sounds like you're stocking.

Fear.

Yeah, you guys are just fear mongering.

Well, it just turns out Australia as a country has shut down all things related to silica, the whole solid, what was it, Engineered stone industry is completely, 100% shut down in Australia.

42:28

And so the things, you know, I mean, as always, we're kind of on on the cutting edge and a couple steps ahead is we saw that this was a problem and we developed a product that addressed that problem.

And so health.

I have kids, dude, I don't come in my shop and and use materials.

42:44

They're going to make me sick.

Same thing with sealer.

You know what we talked about?

There's a lot of manufacturers or people that are down packing sealer that'll tell you it's food safe and they contain extremely toxic chemicals and they'll say Oh well, but you know, once it cross links, it's, you know, fully, fully cured and it's totally safe.

43:05

No, it's not.

No, it's not.

And so the products that we sell, ICT, rad mix, all these products, they're they're focused on the health of our customer because we use these products and we we care about our families.

43:21

We want to make products that you use and you can feel good about using, you can feel good about making things that go in your own home, your house for your clients.

You don't, you don't have to worry about it.

We talked about this long time ago, but somebody's using the sealer.

A big company was using the sealer called Healer Sealer, and Healer.

Sealer was used to seal bridge decks And this epoxy sealer that was extremely toxic.

43:41

And the owner of that company became so sensitized to the sealer, he couldn't even walk into his own building.

He'd break out in hives.

His whole body break out in hives, but they still continue.

They still have people using it.

Exactly.

And you're still sending it to people that have children and newborns and you know, immunocompromised people that these things should not be in the house and you're sending it out there.

44:03

I don't know.

I I don't agree with that.

So we make products that we feel good about and we feel good about the health aspect of it and that's a priority for us.

But the Kodiak Pro Craft Concrete Cures, you know if we can do these health initiatives as an industry and we can get together as a group and focus on our own health whether that's our physical health or our mental health, we're all for it and we we definitely want to move that ball forward.

44:28

That also brings me Jon, you know we're well.

Hang on, I just wanted to read this because while you were talking, I pulled it up.

And sure enough, just reading the it's not just that.

So Australia has become the first country to prohibit Engineered Stone.

And as of July 1st, 2024, it's a full ban.

44:46

And it was unanimously voted on by the Commonwealth as a protection for the, you know, silicosis, or problems with silicosis and health issues.

Engineered Stone is a fashion product that is killing the workers who make it etcetera etcetera.

45:05

So yeah, that we started that from the beginning, right.

I mean you and I had that at one point I we were using ground silica as as micro sands and instantly saw like no man, this is just not cool, not cool And instantly took that on and sorry I'm digressing back to it, but I just remember the hornet's nest for a while that we got related to that that now you know coincidentally here we are a year later or however it's been and sure enough there they are.

45:45

Australia being the first country to ban these products because of silicosis issues.

So it's going to be interesting to see how things move forward into the crystallosilica free materials and I think concrete.

As long as these guys can get on board and bring some concrete materials to the table, it should really boom over there very nicely.

46:09

I agree.

So it brings me to my last part of this discussion on well-being and that is staying excited about what we do and having a passion for it.

And you know, you've seen people, I've seen people that get into this industry and they they kind of just, they reach a plateau and they don't do anything beyond that.

46:28

And they ultimately become kind of disenfranchised and just unhappy with what they're doing.

Yeah.

And and they go out of business.

And I think that has to do with they're, they're not passionate about it anymore.

They're not finding things they love and they're not making new things.

46:44

So you and I were talking about this earlier today and you were saying, you know you, you love innovation and chemistry.

You love it.

And I know that you love it, Jon, but you are this extreme subset in this industry that geeks out on the chemistry.

46:59

And I love you for it, but I'm not that person, right?

I would say the vast majority of people in this industry are in it for the artistry and the craftsmanship of it, of making things.

And so Kodiak Pro provides materials, right?

Can make amazing things, but it's up to the artisan, to the Craftsman craftsperson to make whatever they're going to make with it, Right.

47:21

And I think that's yeah, I think that's where people they get into it.

They make some cool things but then they just kind of hit a a roadblock.

And I talked about this a long time ago but I'm a big advocate for it.

It's done wonders for me and that is a design A day a design a day.

And so get yourself a moleskin journal.

47:40

Or there's other ones, but just white page little journal and go to a coffee shop every single morning.

And this is like going to the gym.

This is like anything else.

You make yourself do it.

You go to the coffee shop, you sit down and you spend 15 minutes doing a design of anything.

47:57

It doesn't matter what it is.

It can be designed for new pot.

It can be designed for a doorstop.

It can be designed for an umbrella holder.

It can be designed for signage.

It can be designed for anything.

Window frames, you make yourself just look around and see something and think, I could do that in concrete and do a sketch.

48:17

And this does a couple things.

A it improves your sketch in the building, your ability to translate ideas to paper.

The more you do it, the better you get.

It's definitely a skill that you develop over time.

So the more you do it, the better.

I know so many people are like, well, I can't draw well, you're not trying.

So the more you do it, the better you're going to get.

48:33

And so you're developing that.

But #2, you're just getting ideas out.

And if you do that for a year and you have 365 designs, I guarantee you there's going to be some gold Nuggets in there that are really, really good designs.

A lot of them won't be.

48:49

And that's fine.

This the point is, you're not trying to hit a home run on everyone.

You're just going through the exercise of making your mind think of something new.

And the more you do it, the more you do it.

And so I think that's a really good way to keep the passion in what you do and to find a new product that maybe you never even considered.

49:06

But now you went to the exercise, come up with a new product that can really propel your company forward in a whole different direction.

You never considered cornhole boards.

I mean there's so many things I, I, I see so many companies that are just killing it on on objects I never would have even considered.

49:22

And so I think there's a lot of market opportunity.

But you know, people don't buy concrete.

People buy what you make with concrete and so you need the best materials possible to to make what you want.

But it's up to you to make the thing that the customer wants.

49:39

That's what they're buying is what you make with it.

So design is everything and that's in my opinion the best way to keep the passion and come up with new ideas.

Any thoughts?

No. 100% agree.

I mean, just recently as I'm looking around to various people we know making anything from I, I I hate to call them little candle votives to whatever the the fire.

50:05

I don't know, you know, put the alcohol in a fire burner or whatever.

I mean, you know, there's so many cool things that our people are making, but it keeps them, it keeps them excelling and I think that's a big part of what all of us the moment you quit doing that that's when I've also watched people.

50:26

I hate to use the word burnt out, but like legitimately like and you get to the point where you're just like I'm just doing this one just you know again to pay the bills and it's no longer exciting.

It goes further than just your business and you know that carries over into your personal life and everything.

50:45

So if you can keep keep the passion alive that that goes a long way with with all of us in our in our daily life business life and you'll and you consider continue to see you yourself and your business excel.

51:02

That's what I've seen that's I mean it it definitely works for me and I think that's a hard one I I don't know man this this is probably now we're going to get all I don't see myself as any different than anybody else and and I think that's a hard thing for people is realizing that whatever I do in my business and my clientele that we try to purvey out that has helped us become successful from that end of the world.

51:33

And then we skip a lot of things in our personal lives and all of that and our health.

You know all of that in a nutshell is what keeps the passion and moving forward and and that's been a big part of this business since you and I brought it out.

51:51

So I'm excited.

You know, I'll continue to be excited for everybody that wants to be a part of this growth, if you will.

Well, Jon, you got to start packing.

Go to Disneyland.

Yeah, Disneyland, baby.

Yep, kids have their last finals this week.

52:08

And then yeah, I need to step back for a minute anyway, right?

Need a breather?

Mental health, man.

Mental health.

You're going to be at Disneyland.

I'm going to be in my shop, cast in concrete, but you.

Know.

Well, it's kind of like Disneyland.

Yeah, well, I got to get these client projects out.

52:26

And once that's done, I always say this, man, I've been saying this for years.

Once that's done, I can focus on passion projects, you know, And I have a lot of them, things I want to build, designs I want to see through.

But inevitably, as soon as I get these out and I'm like, OK, it's like two more come in, hey, we need to get this.

52:44

Well, you act buddy after Disneyland, that's what I'm no question downloading that app and we're going to take off.

I'm excited about that with the from the health aspect, that'll be fun.

Better Together.

So last last thing to hit, make momo.com for the molds.

Keeping out on that, I'm going to do that short term drop on the triangular tile and concord designschool.com for the Fundamentals Workshop, February 10th and 11th.

53:09

And Jon, Merry Christmas to our listeners.

Merry Christmas.

Yeah, Merry Christmas.

Happy New Year.

And we'll see you in 2024. 2024 baby.

Adios, amigo.

Adios.

 

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