How To Make a Concrete Sink Slot-Drain & Build a Thriving Artisan Community
In this Concrete Podcast episode, we pack it with practical insights. We discuss crafting a slot-drain for a concrete ramp sink and the proper cream layer removal post casting using muriatic acid etch. Valuable tips for your projects are guaranteed. We also chat about the 2023 Concrete Hoedown in the Holler, stressing the significance of community and the power of action over mere talk. Our mission is to foster a community of dedicated artisans passionate about creating exceptional products with top-notch materials. We believe in a supportive, positive spirit within our community, where we uplift one another instead of tearing down. We know that extinguishing someone else's candle won't make ours shine brighter. Together, we work to elevate our industry and product quality.
TRANSCRIPT:
0:20
I'll try not to interrupt you this time.
OK.
You ready?
Yeah, I'll hit my own mute.
It's called just being quiet, Jon.
You don't have to hit anything, you just got to.
You just got to be quiet.
That's all there is.
That's the problem.
0:36
OK, you ready to do this?
I am.
Hello, Jon Schuler.
Hello, Brandon Gore.
Coming in hot, Coming in hot.
How are you feeling after four days or three days in Tennessee?
0:53
I'm feeling great.
I shut yesterday, rest of the afternoon off.
I just shut myself off, Turn the phone off.
And I wouldn't say I vegged on the couch or anything, but I just.
I shut the whole day off so that I could gather again.
Got a night's sleep.
So no, I'm feeling 100% energized today.
1:10
I'm ready to roll.
Nice, nice.
I'm still recovering.
It's OK.
I'm getting there.
But you know we should talk about, I have a list of things to talk about today, but we should talk about really quick the the hoe down, the concrete hoe down and the holler.
So you know 2022 which was the last year the hoe down we held.
1:29
That was the first time we ever held it and we went into that with 0 plan.
We didn't have a plan for what we're going to do.
We didn't have a plan for the format.
We didn't have a we we had zero idea of how it was going to go.
And when we walked away from that, we're like, holy crap, that couldn't have gone any better than it did.
1:44
And kind of the problem with things, you know, they say the the worst thing that can happen to somebody is you win your first horse race.
And that actually happened to me.
The very first horse race I ever bet bet on, I won.
It's like getting up to bat.
Hit your first home run and you don't.
You don't have no idea how you did it.
2:00
Yeah.
And then you can't ever do it again, right, You know, And so it's one of the things like the first time we did it was so great.
It was so, so just phenomenal of an event that 2023, there was a little bit more to live up to because 2022 is so good.
Same thing as last year.
2:16
You and I walk into it.
No plan.
We're just going to figure it out as we go.
And so we show up to to.
I think that's what makes it fun, man.
I mean it it's it's playing with power, with with dynamite though.
You know, it's like one of those things that could go really good or really bad and you just don't know which way it's going to go.
2:32
You know, we showed up to Tennessee and and we had this rough idea of making an air cannon and concrete projectiles.
But both those things, logistically, there was a lot to figure out because A, we've never built an air cannon.
I tried to look up plans online.
2:48
Everything was using propane and butane and Hairspray and all this kind of stuff and I don't want to do any of that.
And it was really complex that the the different plans I was finding online.
I want to do something simple and you know, something that we could build that would be safe.
And then the second part was a projectile because the projectiles have to fit in the the Chamber of the air cannon and it needed to have a little bit of a safety margin.
3:11
So it wasn't too tight and we had to do that so.
You know, we showed up the day before and we went to Lowe's and you and I just winged it.
We just, we just figured it out and we got lucky.
Every now and then a a blind squirrel finds a nut and you know we did it again.
And so we we went into the sew down with this plan and it was better than expected.
3:32
We had a full house.
It was amazing group of people.
The, the projectiles, the concrete, all that.
The air cannon part was super fun.
The food was phenomenal.
Gilbert, Michelle.
Came up again and and prepared.
3:48
Phenomenal BBQ Oh my God.
It was it was insane.
Dusty had a musician come Friday night and that was incredible.
It was.
It was.
I can't imagine how we could make it any better.
There was nothing that could have been done better than the way that went.
4:06
And I'm.
I'm just, I'm feeling great about it.
But what I wanted to really hit on on this whole hoedown.
Was community.
You know, community is one of these these catchphrases, these words that people throw around, oh, we stand for community.
We stand for community.
4:22
But talk is cheap.
Without action, it doesn't mean anything.
And so the concrete hoedown, this is the manifestation of a core value of Kodiak pro and of Jon Schuler and Brandon Gore and Dusty Baker and Joe Bates.
And that is, we want to build community.
4:37
We want to foster friendship, camaraderie, mentorship.
We want to be there for each other and that's what this was about for me and and that's what it was.
So we had people from all walks of life, people never use Kodak people never been to concrete design school and everybody was welcome, you know, with open arms and it was just a great time.
4:57
And so you know, that's what I want to say is is this event for me was really the, the manifestation of that core value of community that without action, things talk is cheap, without action.
So, you know, a lot of people say it.
We're doing it.
5:13
What are your thoughts?
Oh, 100% agree.
I was talking to AIM this morning and I was trying to define because, you know, as your wife, she'll just say like, hey, I saw the pictures that look like you had fun.
And I'm not saying we didn't have fun, but I could tell just by her seeing what was, you know, what our photos, videos.
5:35
And yeah, it's actually fun.
But I was trying to define what it was.
It's compared to things like hoedown and pinnacles and workshops and and then I came up with the idea that that really, it's like, I hate to say, but it's more like a retreat.
5:51
It's team building and continuing to foster these relationships with each other.
And I think not.
I think from my point of view the biggest difference and will continue to be the big difference in what and I'm just saying Kodiak ICT, what this group of individuals stand for is we're still all doing it together.
6:17
We're not meaning you and me or anybody else.
There's no, I've sometimes heard the words of the hierarchy and no, man, I mean we're down in the trenches too and this community that comes together in this case to do this.
6:35
But it goes further than that.
I mean these guys are on my speed dial.
We're on theirs.
They call when they have trouble or want to run ideas if work slow you know feed things to them.
I mean, that's what this is all about.
And these last few days and continuing to build on all of that as a retreat, getting to know each other far deeper than just a picture online, you know, I mean, we know these kids, family and kids.
7:04
And I mean it's it's, it's really amazing when you take it outside.
I guess what I'm saying, this is not just about puzzlings and cement, you know?
You know what I mean?
And sure, it's having fun.
There's no question about it.
7:20
Sure, it's having a great time, but it's having a great time with these these makers and artisans and just plain human beings.
I mean, right?
You guys brought their wives and their kids out and it was just great time spending this all together.
7:39
And then this wasn't even all about concrete itself.
I mean the conversations on the table about like I said, well, so and so who's hit a slow period, like hey, how do we all help out so there isn't a slow period?
What's some ideas and how do we build in different ways?
7:59
And the fact that I'm going to say the core or or the center maybe not necessarily the core, the foundation is built around people and products that helps foster the success in business and profits in in.
8:17
It's just amazing, man.
And it's I don't know how else to say it.
I know I've written this, but it's incredibly humbling and and I'm incredibly prideful about being part of this group of people.
Well, you also disclose your IP.
8:35
You also disclose your IP, Jon.
Well, I always disclose my IP.
Yeah.
You said the secret ingredient in maker mix is the makers.
I'm like, why are you going to tell people that we're grinding up makers and putting in maker mix?
Why are you going to tell, you know our competitors are listening to jokes about?
8:52
Unicorn horns and butterfly tails and oh man, no again.
See there.
There's a big difference right there alone that's often not talked about is we feed off because we have the ability to.
9:08
We feed off the input of the customer base to make upgrades, modification and changes to the products that better benefit all of us using the product.
There's another part of the community.
We're not a group of people that go, yeah, well you know, you got to figure it out and and we won't, we won't upgrade something to help you do better.
9:31
You have to modify what you're doing.
I mean that that will always be a core of what we do as well.
Yeah, you know what's funny you say that because I put down on paper and I I didn't send this to you yet, but I put this down on paper because I really feel that it is good to define what we stand for.
9:48
And I wrote down core values for Kodiak Pro.
Do you wanna hear what I wrote, Jon?
Sure.
OK, number one, so you gonna get tissue?
No, no, no.
This isn't a sad thing.
No, no.
I mean like, I'm gonna be so overjoyed, I'm gonna cry tears of joy.
Well.
I know what you mean, but I'm saying no but hit me.
10:10
I think that well water still has you all loopy right now, man.
Right.
Right.
All that sulfur.
Geez, I definitely messed with my stomach.
There's no question.
About that community #1 core value community and that's, you know, we we share the passion for concrete and we're here.
10:27
To work hand in hand and to to build this with our peers, not with our customers, not with you know we're not above anybody we're we're here side by side and so building the community of people that that help each other and build each other up and mentor each other and are inclusive and supportive, that's what we're about.
10:47
So that's number one.
Number two, respect.
Respect is a core value, something that I've experienced over the years and.
What you've experienced is material distributors being disrespectful, disrespecting the customer, whether that's playing games which you've experienced and I've experienced where they they've held orders and not shipped stuff just out of spite or whatever, which is a really weird thing.
11:13
But disrespecting the the customer is not something that will ever do.
So respect is a core value of us of ours cancelling orders out of just pure spite.
Exactly, yeah.
I mean, it's insane.
It's ridiculous.
So respect is a core value.
The third one is integrity.
11:29
So integrity is something we've talked about numerous times but it's a it's a non negotiable principle for us.
And you know for me, integrity is doing the right thing when nobody's looking and always doing the right thing.
And you know, trust is one of these things.
11:44
I I had an employee one time that that lied to me and I explained to him.
You know, I asked him several times.
I already knew the answer.
But he kept lying to me and finally told me the truth.
I explained to him that trust is like a bank account.
12:01
You make deposits, make withdrawals, and sometimes you make a withdrawal so big that you can't recover.
And that's where that's where him and I were AT.
And for me, that's integrity.
Integrity is one of the things you can't pick and choose once you've lost it.
Once you've said, well, I'm going to be, I'm going to, I'm going to have integrity in this interaction, in this situation, but not in this one.
12:17
Then you don't have integrity.
It's not one of the things you never get back.
And so for us, it's.
Insanely important that we conduct our ourselves and our business from a point of integrity at all times.
Do you want to say something about that?
No, it's just just that I agree.
Just like you I can come up with plenty analogies that that it drives me bananas and and hopefully I'm building this into my children and my family as well.
12:40
So it's again, it's it's not like power.
It can't be.
You just don't shut it off, you know, turn it on when you need the the light on you turn it off when you don't need it anymore.
Ever.
It's uncomfortable.
It needs if you're going to stand for something or some things, you legitimately put your cart away, even if it's 50 yards that you got to walk with that thing to put it in.
13:04
It's that's what it is.
And dude.
And you do it.
I essentially A Tiktok.
He didn't watch it.
There's this Tiktok guy.
That chases people around that don't put their card away and throws magnets on their cars that say they didn't put their card away.
And then they get out and they take it off and they throw it and he's like come on you didn't come poop.
13:20
Just put your card away.
Come on come on Mr. And then they chase him.
They threaten to kill him and stuff and he's just like, but just put your card away and I'm like, dude, this is Jon.
When Jon retires and has nothing else to do he's going to be at the grocery store just harassing people.
But anyways, I digress.
And the last core value that we stand for is quality and value for that what I mean is.
13:39
We will always, always, always prioritize quality, quality materials, quality, customer service, quality raw ingredients.
What I've seen happen, and I've experienced this is I've seen material manufacturers make choices on profitability.
14:00
So they'll they'll substitute, they'll replace key raw materials with something that's cheaper.
And the quality of the product that they're supplying to the consumer drops and they did that from a perspective of profitability.
Well, you know, I know that this sand is $0.30 a pound.
14:18
There's a distributor, distributor down the street that sell to us for five cents a pound.
It's an equivalent.
Let's just replace it and then they replace it to make more money.
But then when you get it and you cash are like, well, what happened here?
Why is this mix completely different?
Why is it not doing what I'm used to it doing?
They did it from a place of of budgetary considerations, but not.
14:35
To end product consideration, so something that we will line items rather than performance.
Exactly.
Something we'll never do at Kodiak Pro is make those decisions, determinations based on profitability.
We'll always make the absolute best product humanly possible, no matter what, even if it means we make less money on the product, which has actually been our experience to date is material costs have gone up.
15:00
Dramatically since we started this company.
But our prices haven't we've been slowly been eating away at our margin and that's OK Jon and I talked about this on a regular basis.
Should we raise prices?
Nah, you know not yet.
We keep taking a haircut more and more and more on income.
15:15
But whatever I, I make concrete pieces for clients for a living.
You make concrete pieces for clients, for a living, and so we're we're able to still provide for our families even if.
We make less income with Kodak because our our prices go up from our our suppliers.
15:32
But anyways, my point with that is quality and then value.
You know, for me the best value possible is when you buy something one time only that's the best value.
And I've learned this lesson.
It took me a long time to learn it.
I used to buy the cheap tools, I used to buy the cheap boots.
15:47
I used to buy cheap whatever, right?
And then after you buy 4 pairs of boots in a year because.
He didn't just buy one quality pair that would last you a few years.
He kept buying the cheaper boots that fall apart.
He finally kind of clicks.
You're like, I need to spend, you know, two $300.00 on boots instead of $90.00 on boots that I got to buy four times in that same period.
16:08
It's cheaper to buy, to buy quality.
And so for us, the best value that we can provide to our clients, to our customers, to our friends and comrades is to give them the materials where they can do it one time.
That's always going to be the most cost effective way.
16:23
If you're using products that are you know some liquid polymer that's being down packed and they slap some label on it calling it Gorilla, Gorilla polymer, whatever it is, whatever name they come up for.
Wolf polymer, I don't know, but and then you end up remaking that piece 2-3 times because of air pockets, because of cracking, because of sealer performance issues, whatever it is.
16:48
Then that was not a good value to the consumer and so that's that's where I'm coming.
But those are the four core values, community, respect, integrity and quality.
What do you think?
Do you want to add anything?
Do you want to remove anything?
What are your thoughts?
Well, I I I realized just as because as as I was listening to you since we started on this adventure, I'm going to say one of the things that seems like it has rifled people, you know rifled their feathers with their feathers, whatever it's called riled their feathers, whatever is.
17:20
When we talk about the quality and the difficulty is still going to be using that and what it means to people.
As an example, recently I saw a post by somebody again giving all the amazing benefits of of something they were selling, something they down pack, something they bring in, something they sell.
17:43
And when you read through these things so much for anybody who's done, let's say, made, run a business, doing this is completely contrary to the performance that we get at the very end and the problems that it creates with what we're doing.
18:01
Meaning, if you're making countertops, vanities, furnitures.
Now if you're making, I don't know, hanging wall panels or something, it's a whole different conversation or cladding or whatever the case may be.
Or, you know, a faux something for Vegas.
Are you talking about?
I think I know what you're talking about.
18:17
Are you talking about the the post or it's a blog post about the benefits of liquid polymer?
Correct.
Yeah.
So I saw the same thing and I read it and I actually had a very similar blog post that I wrote 17 years ago.
I want to say about the benefits of liquid polymer.
18:36
And I get it, yeah.
But what I want to say is I read that and it was exactly verbatim what I wrote 17 years ago.
And it's the talking points that are that are sold by the liquid polymer manufacturers.
They say, oh, eliminates A7 day white cure.
18:52
Well, who's white cure in anyways?
Number one, it eliminates A7 day white cure.
Better flexural strength, better color fastness, better abrasion resistance, better freestyle, blah blah blah blah blah.
And that was what was sold to me.
That's what hiring bolts sold me.
He's like, oh, here's all the benefits, young man.
I'm like, yes, Sir, sounds good.
19:08
I told everybody that for years in my classes.
Go ahead, go ahead and do that.
And then just call Joe Bates and get some maker mix and TBP and cast them side by side and just see for yourself.
Just see for yourself.
That's what I'm saying, you know as long as the uncomfortable continues to be pushed as the comfortable, as you know a new generation or you know this old stuff is new information again, it's this old garbage is innovation again.
19:37
Then us talking about what we talking about is always going to ruffle feathers and that's just the way it is.
But, and it's difficult that that's where I get frustrated quite frankly and that this is not meant to be insulting to anybody is that when you put things side by side and clearly it took me a long time to do it, cuz I'll be the first to admit I bought into all of it as well.
20:04
That putting powder, liquid pollen, we're supposed to help with the color fastness and this and that and then you put what's being done now with.
The Kodiak best based materials head to head against these materials with all these polymers and stuff and you go what well why is why is this one looks so much better and cleaner and and I'm going to use the word higher quality and that's we got in some of those conversations and I know we've talked about in the podcast is so when I talk about quality what I my reference point is this there's there's really only a couple ways that something let's say appears to be a better value and that's based on quality and that is either A, you demand more money for it or B, it commands more money simply by the way it's how it looks how it feels.
20:59
I mean all of us have been there man.
There's times when you see it a cheap something next to a really well built something and all they we all agree there's there's no secret to this but it's funny that when it's when it's talked about there's so much of this information still being presented that way that it's a necessity and it makes it better and and historically we all look back and go no, no it doesn't it it hurts sealer performance.
21:30
It ghosted it whited out is it.
So what's the benefit again?
Well, the benefit is you have somebody who doesn't want to lose sales and and I'm not, you know I'm I'm not I know putting that down, I mean it is they're trying, they're running a business, they have a product and they want to sell the product and certainly they want to show you the benefits of that product.
21:55
The interesting thing I will always say, and I think this is also a very big difference between us having done this for so long and being on both sides is I have no problem walking through the benefits of the materials that we both make and provide and at the same time walk through if there's a downside, You know what I mean?
22:17
So what's what's the benefit?
What's the downside?
So again, if someone said, hey, I'm doing this big cladding and it's got to hang and it's got to be light, well then I would say yeah, no, then don't.
This is probably not in your best interest unless you get it really thin.
You may want to put something like a polymer in that pumps up a bunch of air and makes it lighter, You know what I mean?
22:35
I mean, I guess what I'm saying, we're not opposed to given both sides and that's the difficulty I have with some of the information out there.
It's presented one way.
They never talk about, you know, the other side of it And you know when, when these I'm going to call them failures present themselves and then you look back and say, well, geez.
22:56
And then often times it's like we've always said, it's blamed on, well, it was the sealer.
The sealer wasn't good enough and La La La La.
And you look back and know, man, it wasn't a sealer issue at all.
It's because I put these ingredients in that was supposed to make things so much better and it actually made things so much worse.
23:12
Yeah, you're poisoning your concrete.
Well, Hyrum Ball, God rest his soul because he's passed away.
But Hyrum Ball, when he was on the team that invented GFRC with liquid polymer, they were not inventing it for our industry.
This industry wasn't even around them.
23:29
So they weren't thinking of concrete sinks and countertops and tile and furniture and planters.
That wasn't their their goal.
Their goal was cladding, hanging on the side of a skyscraper 150 feet in the air.
That's a completely different use and if that is what you do.
23:46
Then Maker Mix and Red Mix are overkill for what you're doing.
You can get away with pumping that.
That would make it too dense and too heavy.
And it's just unnecessary because it's 150 feet in the air.
You're not care.
You don't care about surface quality.
You don't care about color, density and richness.
It's hanging 150 feet in the air.
24:03
So in that case, yeah, put a bunch of plastic in it.
Just dump it in there, put all that glue in there, hang it up.
You're worried about sealer performance?
Who cares?
No.
Don't want setting wine glasses.
Exactly.
Who cares?
And so.
Yeah, I it's not that I fell for it because I don't think there's anything disingenuous with Hiram telling me these are the benefits.
24:22
Those are the benefits for that use compared to the way they used to do it.
The guys that used to make cladding used to cure in water tanks for seven days, they used to do these things and by adding this glue into the mix, they did see benefit.
But for guys doing what we do and gals doing what we do, sinks, countertops, furniture, tile, planters, that's not the right product to use.
24:45
That's not the right product to use Polymer.
That's what I'm saying.
No, we've learned that too many times.
Too many times shooting ourselves in the foot, yeah.
And if it did offer benefit, we would obviously use it.
It doesn't.
But again, the salesman out there that are down packing some crap product are going to try to sell you the benefit for a completely different use for our industry.
25:07
Try to sell you that bill of goods.
Don't buy it.
It's it's garbage.
Garbage in, garbage out.
They're getting bad information.
Their salesman are trying to make a buck.
At your expense, don't buy it.
Anyways, let's move on.
Let's let's get to the actual meat of this conversation.
You want to What are we talking hoedown?
25:24
No, we're done with the hoedown.
Oh really?
I don't know.
I mean, I'm looking, we're over 20 minutes right now.
We can't go on this forever, OK, OK.
I mean, we we can hit the hoedown again next week.
We can talk about a little bit more.
But what I want to talk about, Sean, and this was a conversation that came up at the hoedown that somebody asked me off to the side was.
25:43
How do you form a slot drain for a sink?
This was somebody new to concrete and they have a sink project and they did not know how to form a slot train.
And it's something I take for granted because, you know, I've made hundreds if not thousands of slot trains over the years.
26:01
But I remember the first time I had to make one and it was a great mystery.
I did not know how to make it.
So before we go down the right way, I want to tell you the wrong way.
And the wrong way is you make a a slot with a hole and then you glue a tray to the underside to catch the water.
26:21
And this is the way that when I first started doing slot drains, there were some companies out there selling these tray systems that you would goop on with silicone and stick to the underside.
What do you mean the water comes through the drain and then drips into a tray?
Exactly.
And this is still to the stage on if you make a granite.
26:39
Slot drain, sink, they still they they plummet if you look underneath like really yeah, I've been in restaurants where they have granite slot like ramp sinks or slot drains and if you look underneath it because they they don't have the form ability that we have.
They can't form in the way we can form in a drain.
I just see that.
A long term moldy, gross mess.
26:56
That's what I'm getting to, Jon.
Don't take.
Don't take.
My Thunder, brother.
My bet.
This sounds gross.
Sorry.
OK.
My bet, So OK.
There was this chain that that I'm sure they still exist, there's just not one around me, but it's called Kona Grill, Kona Kona Grill and I think they're mainly a West Coast chain, but they're they're all over the the West and southwest and they had these granite or maybe they were concrete, but I feel like they're granite ramp sinks and they all the restaurants opened up pretty close to each other in the sense of they built like 20 of them within a year or two and they put these sinks in.
27:34
And they all had this tray system where you siliconed and you stuck it to the underside and then you Plumb your drain to this tray.
But if you ever go into Kona Grill, it's a seafood place and you go in the bathroom.
It smells rough.
It smells rough.
And what smells rough is the drain, because there's this hole that feeds into a tray that then opens up, but it never gets sunlight.
27:54
It never gets airflow.
You're washing your hands, you got crab juice, you got lobster, you're washing your hands, it washes down in there and then it just builds up and it just grows and grows and grows and grows.
And the problem they had is a that was that was a problem enough because they could not access that tray to disinfect it.
28:14
But #2 the silicone started to fail kind of about the same time, like a couple years down the road and all the restaurants, the the tray started pulling away from the underside of the sink.
And when that happened, it got really bad like, Oh my God.
28:31
And so they were based in in Scottsdale, AZ and they came and talked to me and they said, hey, you know, what can we do?
And I said, well, the problem is with sheet goods like that you can't form.
The drain as simply as you as you should.
So what they did is really kind of the only thing they can do is goop something underside to attach a train.
28:50
Your best course of action is to to remove and replace with something made properly, and I gave them a quote and it was too high and they didn't go that direction.
I don't know what they ultimately did, but that was the problem they were having.
So that's that's the issue with that method of a slot train.
So the method of a slot train that I use was, well, it wasn't there A I'm interrupting you, I know that.
29:09
But remember, there's a HBO show called The Last of Us, and The Last of Us was based on just that, where over time, people got exposed to what fungal spores or something like that, right?
29:26
And then ended up, yeah.
So see that?
That's probably where.
That's originated, yeah, that's where that.
Origin Patient Zero was a customer at Kona Grill.
Was it a restaurant?
Yeah.
Kona Grill.
Right.
Slot drain.
I mean, I can't only imagine.
Could you imagine finally being the plumber and in other words, brought him in out of X amount of time and then pull that tray down that was releasing?
29:49
Man, that would just be disgusting.
Yeah, it is disgusting and I think these systems still exist.
As far as this tray system cooping it on, I think that's still out there.
But again, I think it's really geared for slab goods like Corian or granite where they're gluing sheets together and they don't have a way to form in a drain assembly as we can.
30:11
One of the great benefits of concrete is its formability, and it's really a very unique aspect of what we do compared to other materials.
The only.
One that would be similar would be cultured marble or or what is called the the fake marble or essentially it's resin that they pour and that's a very similar process where they build a multi part mold and they pour the resin in there.
30:33
But then it's plastic.
I mean, might as well use polymer concrete at that point, you know, with a liquid polymer you're going to be cast in plastic, so.
Anyways, I digress on that, but the method that I use, there's a guy named Jared Enloe and I haven't seen Jared in years, but Jared is a phenomenal concrete Craftsman.
30:51
He's in Bozeman, Mt.
His company's called Elements Concrete and Jared had a method for forming a slot train that he shared.
I used to have this magazine called the Concrete Cartel.
Again, no good deed goes unpunished.
The Concrete Cartel.
And Jared wrote an article for the Concrete Cartel on how to form a slot train and it was a very, very, very good article.
31:12
So I'll I'll I'll do my best to verbally describe how to form a slot train using his method.
And at some point maybe I'll I'll I'll make a little tutorial on it.
But so here's what you do with the old article.
I don't have it.
31:28
I don't have it.
Oh, really?
I don't have it.
When, when that whole thing, when I said, you know, this?
This is a horrible decision.
Business decision, Concrete cartel.
I'm losing tons of money on it.
I ended up having thousands and thousands of, you know, copies and storage.
31:45
When I moved from Arizona to Arkansas, I burned them all.
I built this huge fire and I burned them all.
It's throwing cases and cases in there.
So they're gone.
They're all gone anyways.
What you doing, man?
That's, you know, you just want to take it.
When you don't, you have it on a zip drive or.
32:03
A on some old computer somewhere.
But you know, here's the problem with I'm getting on a whole other subject here, but with Mac with.
I've had two Macs now that I bought brand new and I had upgraded everything from Apple.
You order it online, you get upgraded, memory upgraded, RAM upgraded.
32:21
You know, spend 4000 bucks on the computer and it just dies.
Two or three years later when it's outside of warranty, it just dies.
And then you take it down to like these Mac Genius places and they're like, you know, we tried to extract it, but no, we can't get any data.
Doesn't seem to turn on.
Yeah, what's wrong?
32:37
I've had two of them do this.
What's wrong with it?
And they say you'd be amazed how how common this is.
Like daily?
They get tons of this.
So I don't know.
I mean, I'm looking at an Apple laptop right now.
I've got an Apple Watch, I've got an iPhone, I'm in the whole ecosystem.
32:56
But that being said, come on guys, come on, it's happened to me twice.
Come on.
Anyways, my point is I did have that stuff, but it's gone now, so I'm gonna do my best to describe it.
So the first part of this is the slot itself for the slot train.
33:12
And for that you wanna go and you wanna get half inch.
PVC like Poly vinyl chloride PVC foam board and you might be able to find this at Home Depot or Lowe's.
You want it smooth, you don't want texture.
A lot of the stuff I see at Home Depot and Lowe's is textured like wood on one side.
33:30
You don't want that.
So it needs to be smooth on both sides.
For me, I get it at a plastic supplier.
Most plastic suppliers will carry PVC foam board.
They use it in the sign making industry that it's really easy to see and see route.
PVC foam board half inch is what you want.
33:48
So to that you will cut your slot drain.
Now when you're making a slot drain you need to think in the inverse you need to think in.
When I flip this over I want the water to drain to the center usually.
I mean sometimes I have the slot actually to where the water drains on one side or the other depending on where the P trap is.
34:06
But the concept stays the same.
So wherever the water needs to drain needs to be the lowest point.
In the final sink.
But when we're making our mold, that needs to be the highest point when we're cutting the slot drain, meaning it needs to angle.
So it's going to be a triangle essentially.
And the top of that triangle when you're building your mold, when you flip it over will be the lowest spot and that's where the water will go.
34:27
So you're going to cut your triangle to PVC foam board, bevel the edges, sand it, make it nice, you're going to silicone that to your mold, and then you're going to make the actual drain assembly and so.
For that you're going to go to the hardware store and you're going to get a grid drain, assembly grid drain.
34:49
These are used for sinks that overflows.
They have all the little holes in the drain anymore.
They're like 13 to $15.00.
It doesn't matter.
You don't need to get like satin nickel, Get the cheapest one.
They have grid drain at Home Depot or Lowe's and it's going to have.
35:05
When you open it up, it's going to have a a down tube that screws into the actual drain assembly.
So that down tube you want to keep.
And then that drain assembly is going to have like a lock nut on it and a rubber washer.
And it's the piece, it's all threaded on the outside and it's started on the inside, but started on outside.
35:22
It's got the holes in it.
You're going to cut off that bottom one inch, the bottom one inch.
So the way to do this is to screw down.
So I put the drain upside down on my table.
So the holes are facing down to the table and I screw down through those holes just with the, you know, crag screw or whatever screw I've laying around to my wood table and that locks it to the table.
35:46
So it's not moving around.
And you take a grinder with a metal, metal blade and you just eyeball about one inch down and you cut it off and you're wanting to keep that bottom one inch.
And so if you look at it on the inside, there's threads that that tube, that that down tube can screw into.
36:04
That's the piece you want to keep.
The rest of it you can throw away.
So then you unscrew it.
You throw the rest of it away.
It seems like a waste.
It is a waste.
Whatever.
Throw it away.
So take that lock nut that comes with a drain that's supposed to screw it to the underside of your sink, that big lock nut, and put it on upside down on the side that has the inside threads.
36:24
So there's that little piece that you have that has the inside threads.
Screw that lock nut on on that end upside down.
And don't don't screw down all the way you want to leave it protruding slightly.
And the reason for that is later on when we're done casting, you're going to grind probably the bottom of your sink and do you want to hit that lock nut before you hit those threads?
36:45
If you were to keep that lock nut off and you grind and you hit the threads, you hit that that piece you have in your concrete, you're never going to get that down tube to screw in because you just boogered up all those threads.
So if you put that lock nut on and keep it proud a little bit, don't screw it all the way down.
So it's just a safety guard.
37:01
So when you're grinding and you hit it, you know, hey, I need to stop.
I'm not going to keep going now because I'm going to at some point get into those threads.
So anyways, so you have this little one inch piece, you're going to cut a piece of foam.
There's a lot of different ways to do this.
Actually I have rubber pieces that I made that are permanent, but if you don't have those, you can just cut foam.
37:22
So measure the the inside of that tube off hand, I want to say it's an inch and a quarter, but it's just going off memory.
But I just use a foam core bit, drill a piece of you know an inch and a half foam and then take that piece of foam out and that's what you're going to screw to your slot drain to that that very top of the triangle.
37:41
You're going to put that piece of foam on there, just screw down into it and then you're going to take that little metal fitting that has the inside threads and that lock net, you're going to put it down and you want those inside thread piece that end to be facing.
All the way up.
So when you flip it over, that'd be the very bottom and you can screw that that down tube into it.
38:01
So that is your assembly.
So you have your slot drain silicone to your mold, you have the foam attached to the slot drain at the highest point, and then you put that metal fitting on and you're gonna cast your concrete and fill all the way up right to the top of that that lock nut.
38:17
You don't wanna go over the lock nut, but you're gonna fill it right up to that edge.
And then ultimately after it cures, you pull the screw out.
You take that foam out.
You can just shoot air down there and the foam will pop right out.
You flip the sink over, you pull your sink mold.
You get that slotch right now, that piece of PVC foam bada Bing bada boom, there you go.
38:35
The great thing about this is you ship it to the job site the the down tube is separate.
They install the sink.
Then the plumber comes and he screws that tube into that fitting, Just screws it right in, just like he would any other any other sink, and hooks up his P trap.
The benefit of this is back in the old days, we would just cast a tube into the concrete.
38:56
We'd have the foam slot drain, we'd cast a tube in, and the tube is permanently in the concrete.
Well, inevitably, when people are installing the sink and I I ship my sinks, they're going to use as a handle, they're going to carry it with that tube, They're going to pick it up and grab it with that.
They're going to set it down.
39:12
It's going to catch the edge of the countertop.
That's going to catch railing on stairs and at some point they're going to bend it.
And once it's bent, you're screwed if they bend that thing.
There is no easy fix and really the the only thing you can do is do it again.
So having this removable keeps it off for installation and allows it to be replaced.
39:31
If for some reason it did get damaged, the plumber can easily pick up another one and screw it in and then you your your sink is fixed.
So that is how you make.
A slot train in concrete.
At least that's one method.
But it's a method I've been using now for, I don't know, 2000.
39:48
When was cartel, 2010?
Maybe 11.
Yeah, I don't remember.
I don't even know, but you know, for probably 12-13 fourteen years, and I've been using that method exclusively and I've not had one issue, Every single client has had great results with it.
40:04
Nobody's had a single problem and plumbers love it because, you know, they were, especially back in the day, they were used to seeing these.
The simple, yeah, these whole contraptions, these Rube Goldberg things of, you know, siliconing and gooping stuff and trying to put a drain on it.
And you know, when they hear slot drain, some plumber still have flashbacks, you know, of, of these horrible systems.
40:25
And so I have had several plumbers over the years call and say, hey, we see on the plans a slot drain sink.
How's that plum?
Then I explained to him, hey, we just cast this fitting in.
We're going to ship it with the down tube that comes with the grid drain.
You just screw that in, hook up your P trap and they're like, that's it, That's it.
40:42
Easy enough done.
So anyways, do you have any input, Jon?
Well listening to your method and and again this is listening to instead of seeing it.
The only thing I would interject that I did differently was that I epoxy the nut to the flange and then when I cast I put the.
41:01
I essentially buried the nut cause per your per your.
What you're saying is when I was grinding the bottom side, you didn't want to hit any of those threads.
So when I flipped it over, the threads were, you know, let's say whatever that half inch deeper.
So there was no no chance in grinding.
41:19
Instead you ground and you cut the whole flat flange.
It just meant that the plumber, you know, the the threads for the whatever, the down pipe or whatever was a little bit deeper.
Yeah, I think that's that's what I meant to say.
If I didn't make that clear, that's that's what I'm.
41:35
Saying I just flipped it over, but the other side I saw was that regardless that you epoxied it together is by burying it like that the concrete went around the nut, which in a way long term prevented.
Even if somebody over tightened or what, there was no way to twist it.
Strip it.
41:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In epoxy.
That's a good point, Jon.
And that's a step I did forget is when you put that that nut on that little piece that you cut off and you put it on upside down, it is a good idea to put a little bit of epoxy and then screw it on on the outside and that way and let analytic cure use 5 minute epoxy analytic cure that just locks it all together.
42:14
So when some plumber is cranking on it, yeah, you know he's got his, his pipe wrench, he's cranking on that under that.
Why?
They do that.
I have no idea.
Yeah, they don't need to.
It's.
It's always possible, yeah, that they don't somehow make that inner fitting strip out or or spin out.
42:31
Which it could technically, because concrete will form around it perfectly and they could in theory back it out of the concrete.
If they wanted to, like a a screw and a bolt, they could do that.
Or a nut and a bolt, so by epoxy in that nut to it and then cast it in the concrete.
42:48
Now it's permanently bonded to that nut.
So there's no spinning it out, it's it's in there forever.
So the the only other things I was going to add had nothing to do with that.
And I don't know if these names I'm going to throw out here in a minute are still doing it.
But one guy that was making the plugs for a while was Mark Melonas.
43:06
I don't know if he still has those available and he he was making the rubber plugs for anybody that you know either didn't have the time and energy or you know just so he had those available and then there was another one.
Now I have not personally.
43:22
Picked them up, but Chad Guthmiller had made some what appeared to be some pretty neat little assembly that he did on a 3D printer.
Nice that was out of a plastic so but again, haven't used them.
43:38
I know I don't.
Again, I don't know if he still has them available, but he had mentioned these, I don't know X months ago that he had made them and was going to make them available.
That that would cut the whole assembly and he had already 3D printed it, I think.
43:54
So it could be in, from a plumber's point of view, a couple different ways.
It would still be cast into the concrete and then it had the proper thread for either screwing on the down pipe or I think it.
Or you could glue, you know, PVC glue a down pipe on.
44:12
So it was something like that, like I said.
So maybe those are things we could just.
You know, throw the if if they're, if the two of those guys are even still making them, I have no idea.
Sure.
Well, that's a good input, Jon.
So that was the how to make a slot train.
44:29
I got a question yesterday from one of our customers that has switched the Kodiak from a product he's using before and he was asking about removing the cream layer.
So he he took train at another place and they define the cream layer as everything until you grind down into exposing sands.
44:55
And I told him, well, I mean, I'm not saying that's wrong.
I'm just saying we define that a little bit differently.
For us, the cream layer is when you cast concrete, there's this, this moment where the concrete interfaces with the mold material and it creates this kind of eggshell layer.
45:13
And when we de mold it, if you don't take that off, you can scratch it with your fingernail.
If you don't take that off, you just, you know, wash the concrete and seal it.
Well, that's going to be able to braid off pretty easily.
And So what we want to do is use acid, a muriatic acid that we dilute.
45:29
It can be anywhere from three to 1/5 to 110 to 1, whatever.
I mean find what you're comfortable with, but I know that you know, you and Dusty use a stronger acid.
I'm using about 5 to one five parts water, one part muriatic acid.
But you want to strip off that soft layer and once that's gone when you seal your concrete, well not even much more durable surface.
45:51
You've profiled the surface on a microscopic level, you've made it to where the concrete can really absorb in, but you've also removed that soft layer.
And so for us, and this is just terminology and and what we mean when we say the cream layer, that's what we're talking about.
If you want to get out a grinder and Polish off that and get down to your exposing sands, well that's more of a salt and pepper finish.
46:13
If you keep going, you're going to get into terrazzo.
Those things aren't bad.
But if you're using glass fiber, you are going to start to expose fibers if that's what you're doing.
And so, you know, I'm doing SECGFRCSEC glass fiber reinforced concrete and I'm just removing the cream layer with muuratic acid.
46:32
If I were to take a water polisher and keep going, I'm going to start to see fibers.
It's just the nature of SEC.
So if that's what you're doing, you're going to need to use a face coat, which a lot of people do.
Joe Bates is one of them where you spray face coat or you could pour a layer, which is what I recommended to this person because they're doing a lot of SCC.
46:51
I said just dude, just pour pour 1/4 inch, eighth, inch, SCC with, you know your PVA fibers you want to use and then pour the rest with the AR glass and that way you can do your salt and pepper finish really you know grind down into it if that's what you want to do and not expose any glass.
47:07
Any thoughts?
No, exactly.
I I always refer to it as the the cast scum layer.
So that's the cast.
Is that the technical term cast scum layer?
Cast scum.
Well, that's when people ask me.
Like, can I just clean it and seal?
And the answer's always no.
47:24
No that that whole like as you're referring to that interface, that moment of contact where it cured the paste and the form material and whether you used a release of some sort or not, you know all of that gets it, let's say impregnated and absorbed into this micro layer.
47:45
And yeah, no that that needs to be removed.
And again, regardless of sealer that needs to be removed, it needs to be cleaned off.
And the best method is to is is clean it off enough that how would I describe it.
I I to the point that you see the surface look I'm going to use the word glitter because you know the micro fine sands and the light kind of look you know looks like it takes on this glitter profile and that's when I know I've removed everything without.
48:18
So I haven't really exposed any.
You know, 50 mesh or or 30 mesh sands or any of that stuff.
But.
But the Surface takes on this kind of like Starry appearance.
Yeah, for me it's, it's tactile.
So when I'm cleaning it with the Scotch Brite.
48:34
Now we should talk about that real quick because we do have a lot of new listeners and we have a lot of people new to Concrete.
They're listening to the Concrete podcast.
So let's just really quickly hit, and this is all on our website, If you go to kodiakpro.com, go to FAQ, we have this all in the ceiling protocol of how to acid etch concrete.
48:51
If you don't know what we're talking about, what you want to do is you cast your concrete the next day.
Hopefully you cure it properly, which we've talked about that a lot and we'll talk about it more in the future, I'm sure.
Exactly.
Hopefully you cure properly.
When you de mold it, you want to clean it.
49:07
First of all, I use simple green and water.
So I I spray the whole piece down with simple green SA degreaser.
You know we have a lot of times wax in our form from where we wax the corners before we silicone, we have mold release.
Whether it's Aqua con or some other mold release, there's a lot of contaminants in the mold and so you want to take simple grain and wash your concrete first.
49:28
That just gets any oily waxy residue off the surface then and you and I differ on this and that's OK You like to do it to dry concrete, I like to do it to wet concrete.
But then you're going to apply your muriatic acid solution to the concrete whether you do it to wet concrete or dry.
49:45
That's preference.
I like to do wet so I have the concrete wet.
I have a pump up sprayer.
I do five parts water, one part Mir attic and I just start hosing it down and I just keep moving.
The the benefit of pump up sprayer is, you know, you're just and I just keep moving around and I set a timer, especially if I have multiple pieces.
50:03
I'm doing pieces at 3-4 pieces of inner interconnect.
They all need to be etched to the same level.
I don't want to do one for three minutes, one for one minute, one for 7 minutes because there are going to be dramatically different in look.
So if you're doing multiple pieces, especially set a timer.
If it's just a standalone sink, then I don't know, set a timer.
50:20
I'm just watching it, but I just go around it for a minute or so, keep it wet, keep it wet with the acid.
I just keep spraying it and after about a minute or so I rinse it off of the water and then I take a green Scotch Sprite and I scrub the whole surface everywhere down in the slot train in the sink.
50:39
The edges, the tops, the sides, give it a good scrub.
Rinse it and I maybe scrub it again.
I look for areas that I missed because you'll see that cream layer come off.
At that point you see it just wash right off.
That acid took it completely, it etched it, it softened it and it's going to take it off.
And at that point it's tactile.
50:55
It feels to me like I would say 220 sandpaper.
So that's about what it feels like, wet sandpaper.
If you just rub your fingers on 220.
That's what the concrete feels like now, and that's what I'm looking for.
And if that's what it is, great.
Now sometimes I let the concrete cure for longer due to whatever.
51:13
Maybe I was out of town when I cast and it sat in the mold for two days instead of 1 day, or three days instead of 1 day covered up and and cured properly.
When I de molded it is far denser, far denser and at that point that one in of acid etch probably isn't enough and I'll have to do it again and maybe again until I get it to that level.
51:31
It's going to take more because it's so much denser, but you're what I'm going for is a tactile feeling and you'll know it.
I mean you can feel it with the Scotch brite when you're scrubbing.
You'll you'll know and and then after that, once it's scrubbed and washed, really, really good, get it all washed, then you want to dry it off.
51:49
I take a squeegee, I squeegee off all the excess water, I take a clean white microfiber and I dry off.
So there's no water pulled because pooled water can stain it.
If it's sitting in the area and it just sits there for a long time, it can stain that spot.
So I dry it off, let it dry and then continue to sealing and that is how I acid etch.
52:09
Do you do it differently?
Yeah, the only difference in anything we're just saying is saying pump up sprayer.
And yeah, I I find for me personally, but again, we're doing two different methods.
Here is when I take my solution over a dry surface, it ends up more even for me, meaning my my entire etch.
52:31
But other than that, no.
You know, I go over it enough, I basically drowned it in it, you know, keep everything nice and wet, evenly wet the whole time.
Let that go for whatever, let's say a minute or so, And then I scrub it and then I rinse it.
And scrubbing as part of my rinsing process with fresh water is what I'm talking about.
52:50
And same squeegee it, dry it.
Because if not right, it leaves a potential to leave.
Residue.
I call them residue lines from the squeezy or whatever the case may be.
Yeah, So you dry it and I put it aside and let it go till the next day and to seal.
53:09
You know, it's funny talking about this, how you learn.
You learn through failure.
And for years and years and years, I would wax my sink molds with carnival wax and buffet, Carnival wax buffet spray mold release, cast of concrete.
53:27
And when I would go to acid etch and I acid etched differently back then.
Back then we would dip a Scotch brite into a bucket of of acid solution and then try to scrub the concrete.
We're chasing it, just chasing it around.
But I could never get the sink mold portion to etch evenly.
53:43
It would repel.
And the reason was that wax had absorbed into the surface of the concrete and the IT was, it was repelling the solution to an extent.
I mean, you could get it, but it took a lot more work.
And what was happening was a top surface of the sink that didn't have that wax was etching quickly.
54:01
And then inside the sink where I was really trying to fight, it was etching less.
And he ended up with these like very splotchy looking sinks where the top is overly etched, the inside's not etched enough.
And I remember there's a guy that was in Phoenix, he used to to help me in my shop sometimes.
His name was Brandon Bowetto and I think he's still around.
54:19
Slab House was his company, but I remember Brandon and I were outside in the sun and Phoenix acid actually sinks and it just all of a sudden made sense to me of what was going on.
I don't know why it took me so long to figure it out.
I said, hey dude, grab some simple grain.
So you ran in the shop, grab some grain.
54:34
I sprayed the sink and they're black sinks and immediately where I sprayed it, it went from being a waxy, you know, water repellent surface.
It just took it off immediately.
I was like, all these years I've been fighting it and all I had to do was clean it with simple grain first.
54:50
I don't know why it took me so long to figure this out, but it did.
And then the the second part of it was, and we used to do the, the dip in a bucket and scrub with the Scotch brite method of acid etching, which if you're doing a big piece, you can really start to get behind and you're over here scrubbing and over there it's drying.
55:06
And then that becomes this big stain that you can't get rid of.
And you know, I was in Phoenix, it was hot and I heard about Jared Inlow doing it with a pump up sprayer and this guy had working for him.
Greg he told me about it and he's like, dude, Jared, he finds the laziest way to do things like he doesn't want to.
55:23
He doesn't want to run around a piece like killing himself, scrubbing it.
He just found that just use a pump up sprayer, just keep it wet.
I'm like really?
He's like, yeah, now that I do it, it makes 100% sense.
So it's funny how through the years in progression we figured out better and better ways largely.
55:40
You know, like Jared Inlow for instance, with the slot training, with the spraying, with the pump up sprayer, through other people's innovations, what they figured out.
But anyways, that's just a little back history of how these processes came to be.
But I think that's it, Jon.
55:55
Anything else you want to talk about?
Anything on your mind?
Well, I was going to talk about the hoedown again.
So excited.
I still am, man.
I don't think I've, I I don't think I've fully decompressed from some of the cool stuff.
56:11
Oh, well, I I have tons of great video footage I got to go through and you know, pick the key clips and put together a video, which I'll do in the next week or two and we'll get that out there, kind of a video recap of it.
Dude, it was like an example.
I I had no idea and I know you didn't either, That that we could that with 80 pounds of pressure could launch a pound projectile nearly 300 yards.
56:39
Seven 750 feet is what it was. 750 feet.
And it was Jess Warrens, Jess Warrens, which was interesting.
So this was something that that I think is a great example of how the danger of somebody putting themselves at the top of a pyramid of being the be all end, all of knowledge is if you think you know everything, you're not open to learning anything, right?
57:08
Correct.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true. 100% agree.
I've been doing this for a long time, but I don't have it all figured out, that's for sure.
And same with you.
And I'm always what I love about community is talking and learning from other people.
And so here we are, we're we're going to make these concrete projectiles.
57:26
Jess Warren, who is a avid bow hunter, he actually killed a 10 point buck the first day when he got there at Dusty's place.
He went hunting, got a 10 point buck that morning.
He's an avid hunter, but he's very much into the science of projectiles, of arrow design and front of center and how much weight you need here and and there's a whole science to it and he's super, super, super into it.
57:54
You know, it was incredible listening to him talk, but he applied those physics considerations that you use for bow hunting, for arrows to his projectile and his projectile.
I mean, my projectile, which was essentially just, you know, slug, yeah, slug.
58:10
I mean, I I I I tapered the end and I put rifling on it, but my projectile probably went 150 yards or 450 feet.
Yeah, Jesses.
Went.
That's where I was at, too, right in that area, yeah.
Jesses went 300 feet further than mine, which is incredible, You know, another 100 yards past mine and what had to do with his knowledge of that, that aspect.
58:37
And so, you know, that's just a great example of community and learning from each other and mentoring each other and admitting that I don't know everything and I don't need to know everything.
And it's great to learn from people that know more than me.
It's it's fascinating, so.
And learn from each other's passions exactly, exactly.
58:54
And then get passionate off other people's passions.
I mean that.
That's just so cool.
Yeah.
Always be wary of a of a cult leader that says they have all the answers and you know they're the end all, be all because you know you might drink the Kool-aid.
I like Kool-aid.
59:13
Well, Jim Jones has some for you, buddy.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyways, I'm getting ready cast.
I made 20 tile molds.
I'm getting ready to cast a bunch of tile today in the next few days to to tile the bathroom here in the new studio.
59:29
So anyways, I'm going to hop back in the shop right now and start mixing concrete.
So.
Yeah, awesome man.
Get to it.
Yep, I will.
Well, until next time.
Oh, before we go, I have a workshop coming up December 4th and 5th.
Concrete designschool.com.
It is the Fundamentals Workshop.
It is the class for people that are new to concrete that want to get off on the right foot.
59:47
You'll learn the right way to do things.
Come, come join us, we we're actually filling up pretty quick, which is great.
So this class is going to cover the the basics of old building, the basics of templating, the basics of tool use, the something that you know a lot of people don't talk about, but how do you properly use a skill?
1:00:06
How do you properly use a mixer?
So we're going to go through that.
We're going to go through casting, curing, sealing.
And then we'll discuss installation.
We're going to do this over a day and a half.
It's going to be they're going.
To show me how to, after all these years, how to properly use a track saw.
I wasn't using it right exactly.
1:00:22
So it's one of the things that this is going to be a basic class, but it's going to be a day and a half, December 4th and 5th, and it's going to be a great class.
So if you're new to concrete, you're interested in concrete, maybe you took a class and it was, it was too advanced and you want to kind of go back a little bit and and start at the very beginning.
1:00:41
This fundamentals class is for you.
So go to concretedesignschool.com.
You can register December 4th and 5th here in Wichita.
KS actually Goddard, we're just right outside of Wichita, but we'd love to have you.
So there's that.
But All right, Jon, let's get to it.
All right, buddy.
1:00:57
Adios, amigo.
Adios, have a great one.
You too.
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