Extreme Ownership and Concrete Wisdom: A Vision Quest

This week on The Concrete Podcast, we're diving headfirst into the art of owning your mistakes—whatever that means. Extreme ownership, folks, it's a thing, and trust me, more businesses could benefit from it. Then we'll chat about washout areas in shops and dealing with that pesky sludge. We'll also cover HVAC systems in shop spaces, drop some wisdom from Marcus Aurelius, and talk about going on a concrete vision quest. If you love concrete, we love you. Tune in to this week's episode, and let's keep livin'!




Hello, Jon Schuler.

Hello, Brandon Gore.

Poor Jon got allergies?

You sound like crap, yeah?

Yeah, I got to pull out my fiddle.




Or violin, huh?



You're a little tiny violin, yeah.

Yep, Yep.

It is what it is.

It is what it is.

You and I are both kind of having that kind of day where you're in a little bit of a pissy mood, a little bit of a pissy mood.

It happens.

It is what it is.

It kind of actually plays into what I have for the podcast today, what I made.


I made this list a few days ago of things to talk about.

Oh, the pissy list.

Is it a pissy list?

No, it's not a pissy list do that man.

It's sort.

It's not.

But it is.

One of the things on my on my list here was it says product suppliers owning mistakes.

Oh yeah, yeah.

It was something I wrote down.


It had to do with something that's that is going on where I I guess a guy had a countertop crack and whatever and he posted a question on Facebook.

And you know, everybody's coming up and helping, but the product for the person that sold them the materials is like, this isn't a material issue.


You're right.

It can't be, yeah.

Don't don't nobody look at what's going on.

Let me just tell you, that's not what's going on.

What you what you see going on, That's not what's going on and that's what's going on.

It's a material issue, but owning your mistakes, owning something that went sideways and just resolving it and you know, treating people fairly.


Any thoughts, Jon?

I I, I think everybody knows.


Own it.

Yeah, absolutely.

But you know what?

It's a hard thing, man.

It it really is.

I was literally just talking to someone else here recently and one thing I really appreciate, at least for us, is a lot of people take value in our transparency, right.


And undeniably a big reason for that transparency is not, yeah, I'll be honest with you, not because I'm trying or ever have tried to like build a, you know, can't trust in people.

That's not it.


You know, I'm just as most people know I I'm pretty much the guy who just puts the cards on the table, even the most uncomfortable cards, because I'm a believer that haven't done this long enough or whatever I'm doing.

If I've run into it.

The only way we're going to solve the situation that's moving forward is to find a common ground.


And so if I'm not truthful about what's going on, then you never find a common ground and and nothing actually legitimately gets you know, let's see, repaired or fixed or whatever the case may be.

So is this that one you're talking about A post where the concrete head?


Again, I hate using the word micro crack, but like the Surface was pretty crazed up.

Crazing is not in the right term.

It's cracks.

It's cracks.

Yeah, those are cracks.

Yeah, it's cracks throughout the surface.

It's just it was a bad mix, bad product.


The product manufacturer could try to claim that the person that mixed it added too much water or cured it improperly.

They could come up all these excuses.

But still, the fact is that's a materials issue.

It is what it is.

Just to own it.

Just to own it.

The cheapest and fastest way to resolve anything is just to own it and move forward.


But denial, misdirection, all the different things what we what we've heard, you and I have heard from so many people is and this is what me and you heard for years dealing with other product suppliers was you're the only person having problems.



Nobody else ever heard of such a thing.


And so people, when when they contact us and they have an issue and we're like, oh, damn, well, let's figure it out, let's you know what's going on, Explain to me what's going on.

OK, OK And we work it through.

They're like, dude, it's so great that you don't just try to like gas lightning, tell me I'm only one having a problem and everybody else is perfect.


You know, you guys, actually, you take the time to to resolve things and have a discussion about it.

Yeah, that's so common for years and years and years and years.

Every time I had any type of issue and I'd contact the company, man, that's weird.


You're the only person having a problem.

Everybody else is perfect.

That's weird because I've talked to 20 other people that had the exact same problem and they said they called you so well.

See, that's always the hard part too.

I I don't know how people again, whoever you might be, you know, have or try to have a leg to stand on when you actually know it's a legitimate issue.


I mean, it's to me, it's always come on man.

Especially if these are your materials.

You can't be that oblivious.

I I don't believe it.

I just don't believe it.

I really don't Because if we're talking about the same post, which obviously we are, the one thing about that post that I will agree is this present and and we're going to jump all over here is the presentation that it didn't have to be or that might have been a sealer failure issue.


Well, I guess it depends on what we call sealer failure.

In this case, let's just be honest.

I mean it needs to be maintained.

It's an exterior piece.

I don't care what sealer you use, it needs to be maintained.

Now if that means the sealer wore off or whatever the case may be and we're going to call that a sealer failure, well then let's just come straight out and say that's a sealer failure and it needs to be maintained once a year.


But but that's the sealer issue and the cracks issue are two separate issues to me.

Yeah, it was a material fault with the concrete itself.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the cracks.

Cracks like that, then that's a profit.


Not that's not daily wear and tear.


I've never made a piece of my life in 21 years of doing this, that did that.

No, no, no, no, no.

So that's that's undeniable.

The sealer issue like hey man, exterior police, I think it said he was in Michigan or something like that.

Like this goes back to everybody.


You just have to embrace the materials for what it is and these need to be maintained.

That's just the way it is.

And if you have clients that are opposed to that or more importantly you present the clients with a with a product that you don't put that up front is an understanding.


Well that's again that's a that's a you and issue, but the reality is outdoor pieces they need to be maintained.

That's just the way it is.

Yeah it's funny, Sealer.

This wasn't on my list but it's it's been 2 recent conversations on Facebook which I think are both have lessons to be gleaned from both of them.


One of them is going on today on the ICT page Ala Lynetzky.

I like, I like Ala.

She's, she's a character, but Allah has a table for client.

And the client is complaining because he's taking a newspaper, rubbing it on the table.


The ink is coming off on the table and it's hard to get the ink off and the client's unhappy about it.

And you know, so she's like asking like, what can I put on the table to help help with this?

And I'm like, that's not the problem.

The problem is the newspaper and the client.


In the photo of the table, there's a beige couch.

I'm sure that couch costs $50,000.

A $100,000.

I don't know.

Is that client taking the newspaper and rubbing it on the couch and then no, he knows better.

The ink's going to rub off.

He knows the ink will rub off.


So he's not going to put it on the couch and sit on it and squish around and then get, Oh my God, look at the ink.

And then when he calls the the manufacturer, the coucher, like, what'd you do?

You put a newspaper on that beige couch and rubbed it around, and now you think it's a couch problem?

Yeah, that's a weird one, yeah.


And so, you know, she's asking like, what can I do?

And I'm like, what you should do is tell that client to stop doing that, read it on your iPad or put something down on the table for you, rub a newspaper around.

But obviously it's a ink issue on the newspaper.

It's not a concrete or sealer issue.

It's just a weird it's a weird amount of responsibility that the client is pushing off onto you when it's a client issue and at some point you got to say to the client, listen, this isn't a ME problem, this is a you problem and what you're doing, you know, we we always make the knowledge of a truck.


But if you buy a brand new truck and you go outside and you spray it with with spray paint and you take it to the dealer and like I need a new paint job, you know this this paint didn't resist what I did to it.

I'm like you did that, we didn't.

That's not that's not a defect on our side.


You did that.

So no, it's a you problem.

And that's what this guy's doing.

He's doing the exact same thing and complaining about it because in his mind, he wants to be able to read his newspaper and not have the ink come off OK.

Yeah, that's that's a hard one.


When I say hard, it's I think this still happens with so many artisans is we instantly take it on our shoulders like and and maybe this isn't what all is doing.

Maybe she's just simply trying to come up with a solution.


I don't know.

But if it's taken from the point of hey, I'm going to take responsibility like the sealer or the in this case she did use a ceramic coat with the sealer.

Did I something do something I did wrong?


Is there a fault or or faultiness with the sealer or the ceramic coat?

I have to in this case, I have trouble believing all it would do that only because it all is a very intelligent person.

So you know right off the bat I would be like, and she already knows that silicon dioxide chemistries, you know, there's nothing there that would have anything to do with inks and ICT, same thing.


There's zero there that would be causing anything like related to, you know, pulling ink out of the paper or something like that.


Well, who hasn't read a newspaper that when you look at your hands, there's black, black ink on your hands?

Exactly, exactly.


I mean that's.

Are my hands faulty, you know?

Jesus, what's wrong with my hands?

I want a.

Refund on my hands.

They're getting ink on them.

No, you don't do that because you know it's the newspaper.

It's not a, it's.

Not a part of it, yeah.


It's just ink on the paper.


Come on, now you know what it is.

Let's just say what it is.

Let's stop trying to act like this is a, you know, a problem.

I'm not trying to cut you off, but I'm having flashbacks.

And when that Lady poured hair dye and acetone in the erosion sink, women complained to to the designer that hired me that the sink was staining from water.


That's what she said.

And then when I had a buddy in San Francisco go out there to reseal it and he talked to the husband, husband was like, no, she's pouring hair dye and acetone in that sink.

Well, that's news to me.

That would have been good, good information to have upfront when I get the call from the designer that the sink is staining from water, which I knew wasn't true.


I knew there was no way that was true.

But that type of thing, when when a client passes the buck onto the onto the artisan, tries to make your responsibility, drives me nuts.

Drives me crazy.

Yeah, that is a weird one because like I said, I mean for my product point of view, there's nothing faulty 0.


So if excuse me, I almost coughed.

So if we act like the potential fault, I don't know man, that's just or that really opens a very bad potential of a Pandora's box, you know what I mean?


Yeah, once.


You start saying, well, let me try this.

Well, now, now you have accepted it that it's that it's your fault.

And then I think she was asking somebody to go out there and maybe, you know, apply some more, you know, something.


Siloxane or silozene or something?

Yeah, yeah, well so here's the deal.

You know, we've been talking a lot about the MO's, so it's undeniable Right now I hate to use gold standard, but one of the the moving things for anti graffiti is Sio 2, chemistry with polysilazines.


You know it's it's great.

In fact I encourage anybody to do this, seal a piece of concrete with ICT and then apply that mose to it and then pull out a, you know a black sharpie pin and write and you'll see that the the sharpie pin ink almost just beads up.


It's really neat.

Yeah it's so it's it's being used a lot in anti graffiti kind of stuff.

So again where I'm going with it, this isn't the problem.

This is not the issue.

So going and applying more to me opens up a potential like, oh, well, maybe there was and let me apply a little bit more, but that's not going to solve anything.



I mean, it's going to be like, hey, you just came out here and did something.

It's still doing it.

Oh, OK hey, let me come out.

We'll do something else.

Like, no, sorry, use some pledge.

You know what I mean?

Go get a spray wax.


Get an iPad.

I think you can afford it, bro.

I I I see the photos of your apartment in New York, overlooking Central Park.

You don't have to read the newspaper.

You get iPad and read it on your iPad and there's no link.

Or something.

But I just say at the end of the day I'm with you.


I mean there's a point where and I don't know if she's, there's a concern like Oh well maybe the designer won't call me again or I don't know.

But I find if you know, if you a take your responsibility, and your responsibility in this case is to stand up for your materials, plain and simple, you know what I mean?


Have that confidence in what you're doing.

Like this is not the issue.

There's nothing that I do, nothing in the concrete or the sealing technologies or anything that was, you know, let's say exacerbates this from to happen.


This is a paper issue.


This is the client doing something they shouldn't be doing and complaining.

It is what it is, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And there's no amount of and somebody did.

Who was it?

He recommended the.


Face wipes or something?


Makeup remover?

Makeup Remover wipes.


So there you go.


There you go.


Well, sounds like a simple.

So that's on my list, John.

Let's see, let me pull up my list again.

Well, I'm actually.

Oh, you want to keep?


Answering one of those by a vendor, I mean I agree about the going back to that particular Bose, I completely agree 100%.

I I think anybody who doesn't either a has not done things long enough or B, you know, you're just delusional, but you know, especially outdoor stuff that needs to be maintained period.


That's just the way it is.

There's no sealer I don't care about.

You can't come up with anything that's going to tell me that whatever is not going to need some kind of maintenance on especially exterior pieces.

But in this one, which I don't agree with, is that the manufacturer is putting out zero information related to the materials.


That's the the IT cracking and and doing what it's doing.

That's pretty evident.

There's something going on.

I'm not pointing fingers.

See, I think that there's the issue though.

I think too many people think that if they just step up and a product manufacturer and own it, that somehow it means that they're faulty in some way or.


And I have never found that to true.

I mean all you know as a customer, many customer myself, a customer of products.

If you're upfront and honest about the products, goods, the bads, the pros, the cons, that allows the end user to make an informed choice.


That's what I believe.

I posted a video on Instagram.

It's Mike Tyson talking.

But he's talking about that is the test that make you strong, the test in life.

And he he had a, he had a quote.


There's no testimony without a test.

I thought, man that's really true.

It's it's so true.

I mean it's and I post another one, Denzel Washington or no, it was oh man, who's that actor George Clooney was talking about that.


If you just win and you've talked about this, you learn nothing.

You learn through failure.

You don't learn through wins.

And you know, the trials and tribulations are what make you better.

I think about San Mageddon as much as that sucked during that time of of going through that, I think it made us better for it.


You know, ultimately I think it didn't.

I think at the end of the day, we came out stronger because of it and stronger in a sense of we acknowledged it.

We worked as diligently as quickly as we could to resolve it and we just tried to make it right and and our customers saw that you know we're we're forthright and the end.




Anybody who's been a customer with us, you know it, it did nothing but strengthen the bonds further with that from being open.

So, yeah, So, I mean, there was some touchy moments there for a minute, but you know, yeah, yeah, what?


Are you going to do what are you going to do, John?

All right, so let me, let me continue with my list here.

My next thing.

My list John is well, hang on before.

Jesus, throw this one out there.


I know.

But before we move on, I I didn't even post it on this on that particular.


It just happened to be on that particular forum page, on that particular posting.

You know, one of the real navigating social media is so difficult, man.

It's so difficult.

But one thing I do enjoy and I think lots of people enjoy, sometimes I just go and lurk, right?


I enjoy just reading comments.

And you know, we've always talked about it.

Sometimes, like if you don't, if you don't like the comment, instead of engaging, just scroll on, you know, just scroll on, scroll on.

But sometimes you just can't.


You know what I mean?

There's something in you that makes you just go.

So on that particular post, there was a poster, right?

That a person who so egotistically had to jump in and be like, you're doing it all wrong, you know, it's pretty evident, You know, you basically want to say.


It's pretty evident you don't know what you're doing.

I don't normally see that in concrete.

I especially don't see it in my own.

And I'm paraphrasing, right?

And I just thought, like, Oh my God, man, See, This is why I go to some of these things.


Because here was a person.

It's like you, egotistical maniac reading, that you had to come from a superiority position.

You put your little digs and put downs and all at the same time.

A big part of the information that's being left out is, well, of course yours doesn't crack.


I'll give it.

It doesn't crack.

It doesn't stain, it doesn't bend it, it doesn't have any pin holes.


And why?

Because you don't do it.

You don't make.

Any concrete?

If you don't make any concrete, then your concrete's perfect, right?

That's the way it works, John.



I mean, it blows my mind.

If you don't make any any any concrete for clients, you don't have any client call backs.

You can confidently say I've never had a client call me back.

Because you don't have any clients, you.

Don't have any clients.

That's the easy thing to say.


But you you leave out that last part.

You say I don't have client callbacks, but you leave out the part where you say because I never have clients, I have clients.


Of course.

Well, and then take it a step further.

Let's not take it a step further.

Come on, let's move on.


I have to some of the Jesus who have used the other products who have had similar issues.


Again, it doesn't make me the products bad.

It just means these are issues.


I mean this is what we do.

This is how, you know, we we, you know, dance through the minefield and you know how to make concrete and cure concrete and where it's going and clients.


And so it just, I don't know, man.

It just kills me sometimes these the people like this jump out there.

I guess it's much like trolling, right?

That's the only way I read it.

It's like, OK, here we go, here's a troll.


I would say it's trolling.

I would say it's somebody trying to maintain or establish relevance by making a comment like that and ultimately it backfires.

But I think, I think that's, I think that's the intent of making a comment like, well, my concrete never does that well, OK, whatever.


Actually, it's true.

I mean technically.

It's true.

Who cares?

Who cares?


I don't care.

I don't care.


I know.

So let's continue.

I know.

I should have held off, but I actually had.

I did actually put a POST and I shouldn't have.

I probably shouldn't, but anyway, yeah.


I swear to God, are we going to do this podcast or we just going to keep going down this?


Let's keep going.

We got to move down the list.

Hit me with another one.

Are you sure Either?

I guess.

I'm in piss mode right now, but so I got to find my new, like, let it go, let it go, let it go.

I got to sing my song.


Not very well.

All right, where we at?

OK, so next thing is dealing with sludge in a shop.

And this is something that we did a workshop at Joe's shop recently and I had a few people ask me how I how I deal with sludge in my shop and every time I do a class people ask because at my shop I'm I'm different than Joe in a way.


I have mine set up.

Joe has this fancy thing called the the Sludge Hen.

I think that's what it's called.

The hen or Buster or.

Something like hen HEN, which I guess sounds weird.

Why is it called a hen?

Yeah, it's like Sludge Hen is what it's called and it's uses compression and like a membrane and a it essentially compresses the water out and you end up with like this brick of sludge you can throw in a trash can.


It's interesting, system looks really cool, but that's not what I have.

So what I have and what made me start thinking about is besides the conversation I had Napa with some people about.

It was yesterday.

I cleaned out my my washout area because it filled up with sediment and I only had like 1/2 inch of of through for water to go and do because it's all full of sediments.


I had to clean it out.

So it was on my mind.

But the way I handle it and it's the way the Buddy Rhodes, the man handled it 21 years ago or actually longer now because I took his class in 2000.

So 24 years ago is barrels, I have barrels, I have these plastic barrels, you can pretty much get them on Facebook marketplace anymore for 20 bucks apiece.


So plastic 55 gallon drums or barrels and I pump the water into those and the the water pumps in on the top and then it has a a pipe that comes out to say 3 inches from the top and spills down a minor stack now except them side by side.


But now I have them vertically but it it spills down and goes into a a barrel below and then that fills up and then there's a tube a little bit lower down and that one goes to the drain.

But what happens is gravity filtration.

When that murky water that has concrete sediments in it gets pumped up, it settles in that first barrel and then it skims off and goes down to the second barrel and then the smaller particles settle and then that skims off and goes down to a drain.


And it works really good.

I had the same system at my shop in Tempe, AZ for 14 years as in that space and never had a single issue.

It's just really you have to stay on top of.

I have a sink and I say a sink.


It's so funny.

This last class I had, I had a a fundamentals class and so I have a shop sink that I just use for convenience.

It's in the washout area.

The water spills out the bottom.

It doesn't go to a drain, it spills out the bottom.

But I have a bucket underneath because that catches the majority of the sludge.


So when I wash out a bucket and has concrete and it goes in a drain and it goes down into that bucket, most of that concrete will settle in that bucket.

That's that's step one.

And then the water will kind of skim off the top and then it goes on to the floor.

But I have a through cut on the floor so it ends up in the through and then again that's kind of Step 2.


So then the sludge built up in there, which is why I had to clean out the through because it had filled up a sludge.

And then from there when the water gets to the top, I'll pump it into the barrels and that's step three-step 4, barrel 1, barrel 2.

So that's that's the set up.

But during the class, I was washed out a bucket and it was the first bucket and they see it spill into the onto the floor essentially like, Oh my God, your your sink's not working.


You know, I'm like, no, guys, it's like, no, but it's going on the floor.

I'm like, believe me, I'm, I'm aware, I know.

I know how this works.

This is the way it's supposed to be.

But it kind of blew their mind at first because they didn't understand the gravity filtration system, how it works.


But that's how it works.

That's that's the way I do it.

The way Buddy did it.

I say that's the way Buddy did it.

The way Buddy did it 24 years ago was he had a loading dock behind a shop that they put a metal grate floor over.

So they put eye beams across and they put a metal grate floor and they would just do everything out there.


They'd wash their buckets, they'd water Polish, they'd do everything out there, and all that sludge water would just drain, you know, between the grates.

And it was like a pond underneath.

And the the water would evaporate off and it would slowly fill up a sludge.


And then, you know, Buddy said every so often, every six months or a year, they'd have to take a day, pull the flooring off, take a skid steer, dig it out, fill up dump trucks, and then put the floor back and keep keep going.

That's how they did it.

But it was the same idea.

Gravity filtration, they just let gravity do it.


So I did it a little bit different way, but a similar way in the sense if I use barrels to do the same thing, but it works great, that's that's what I do.

What do you do, John?

Well, #1 if I do any wet processing, I do it outside my shop.

Well, when you're washing the buckets out, what do you do?

Oh, so I yeah.

Outside my shop I have this, I don't know, this little dump area where on the backside I have a a big oversized trench.


I don't know, it's probably a foot deep, right?

It's probably 8 foot by 5 foot or something like that.

And I've lined that with plastic.

I put some holes in the plastic and then I keep dumping it in there and then once it gets filled and I have those grates over the top of it, once it gets filled, then I just bring a dumpster in and take a sledgehammer to it and dig it all out and put it in the bin.


It's about ready to be done, actually.

I think Joe, before he got this mud hen, I think he used to have a big tote.

Same idea, right?

Is that what Joe did?

Everything went to the tote.


Was one of those that similar to you?

It was all done gravity feed, you know, it went into the center through it, got pumped into one and then you know, slowly filtered and then whatever the 1st.


Or did Joe, Did Joe have Man, I'm trying to go off memory, but I feel like the very first class Joe had, no, it wasn't Joe's shop.

Whose shop was it?

They had like the the Super sacs on pallet racking and they're running water through that and it was catching the sludge of water drip through.



Super sacs Super sacs hanging from pallet racking.

So they had super sacs hanging on pallet racking.

The water got pumped into it and the water would drip through to the next one.

The next one, next one come down, but they were collecting the sludge and at some point when they filled up they'd use a skid or a a forklift to just pick him up and put him in a dumpster because it's just full of sediment I'm.


Trying to think interesting, I thought that was good.

But it's somebody else.

Somebody else in California, I can't remember who that was.

Anyways, it was interesting.

It was interesting, but that was on my mind.

The other thing on my mind this week, John, is HVAC in a shop.

It is so nice.


For 21 years I was in Arizona for a big part of that and then I was in Arkansas and Arkansas.

It gets hot and muggy in the summer.

We've done plenty of classes.

August, when it is hot in my shop and it was muggy.

I think you remember some of those, but Oh yeah, you know.


So for 21 years I've been just kind of at the whims.

I had heat in Arkansas in my shop because the winter we've get some pretty brutal winters, which I didn't have in Phoenix.

So I put heat in but I never put air conditioning.

So this shop here it said screw it, I'm going to put the biggest mini split I can put and it says Synvil SENEVILLE Synvil mini split off Amazon.


It's the biggest one to make.

It's a three ton unit, 3 ton equivalent and I did it myself and I installed it in the back and dude I turned it on this week for the first time for air conditioning.

I didn't know what to expect.

It's incredible.


It is incredible.

It is so nice to work in your shop and it feels like the CFM off that thing is just insane.

I'm standing there and it's just like just ice cold air blown on me and it feels so good.

I'm just like, Oh my God, this is luxury right here.


This is the life.

This is life.

Oh my God, why did I wait so long?

I mean, it wasn't that expensive.

I want to say that this thing was like 16 or 1700 bucks, maybe a little more, Maybe it's 2000, I don't know.

But I did it myself.

I bought it on Amazon.


I did it myself and it heats as well as a heat pumps in the winter time.

It kept my shop toasty warm.

We did classes this last winter here and you know, cold outside.

It was nice in here.

It's just something I should have done a long, long, long time ago.

So my advice to to the people listening is if you have a shop space, definitely consider doing a mini split.


They're so much more efficient than a a forced air HVAC.

The problem with the forced air system is they're either on or they're off.

It's not a variable speed motor.

So this is ADC motor essentially.

And so it'll it'll it can trickle at 10%, twenty percent, 30% power and it'll just do that.


It'll just be running really low just barely consuming any energy.

Where, you know my house, we have two forced HVAC systems.

We have a dual zone system in my house.

It's either on or off, just me off, me off.

That's all it does.

Just on, off, on off all day long.

Or this is just constantly running.


It's never going crazy.

It's just running.

It's so much nicer and it's so much more efficient.

It's quieter.

It's more comfortable.

You know, I think that's a big part of them now as they become they're they're affordable and they come in and I just, you introduced me to them.

I need to put one in my cabin because right now I just have one of those like let's say the glorified one that kind of goes in a window, you know what I mean?


So I have one of those and it's actually in the wall and I'm just going to pull that out.

And that's what I plan on doing a mini split, you know, per talking to you and realize like holy crap man, you can pick these up for, you know, 500 to $1000 to get it installed.


I think we did a podcast with it, right?

You Because I did 1 space next door and I did one for the meeting room before I did the one for my shop and those were 600 bucks each on Amazon, which is amazing. 600 bucks.

Yeah, and that's amazing.

And I guess worst case scenario if you do need knowing HVAC guy is now, you just hire him to come out and like you know, just double check your system.


Which I had to.

Do but you pot the pump and you did all that stuff, but you did end up calling him out, right?

On the first one, because I over tightened it, I over tightened it and that's still the one thing if you do this yourself, which I encourage you to do because it wasn't that difficult.

But if you do it yourself, they have a torque specification for the line set.


The that goes from the head unit inside out to the condenser or whatever you're going to call it outside.

And there's a line set and they have a very specific torque specification.

You know whatever is 20 Newton meters, whatever.

But because of the the fitting, you have to get a crow's foot adapter.


And then I had to get two different torque wrenches to people texting me about concrete.

Imagine that.

I had to get two different torque wrenches because one of them had to be at this level, this one to be at this level, and they're too far apart for it to to be one torque wrench.


But when I tried that, I just never could get it to work.

I could never get it quite right.

So I just ended up doing it by hand, and I overdid it.

Just, I went all in, you know, overdid it.

And so the next day it was working great.

Next day I went outside to like finish putting on the covers because I did cover on the line set outside and I could hear I was like what's that noise?


It's it's coming from this fitting right here.

So I get I get a a a wrench and I just crank it a little bit tighter and it goes, I completely, I completely cranked it to where it just popped the the flared end off essentially.

And so lesson learned, nothing I can do at that point.


And so I did a HVAC guy come out and recharge the system, re flare the line and rehook it up and he's like, yeah, he's like, you know that's the only thing is easy.

You just have to be careful about how tight you tighten it.

So the the next two I did, I didn't use the torque wrench because I knew like I wasn't able to get really inaccurate torque on it.


So I would just everything I I read from HVAC guys, they say they tighten it till you know finger tight essentially and then they just go like a 1/4 turn more.

So they just and then they just quarter turn more and that's it.

So that's what I did on the other two and they've been great, no leaks, they've been running great for a year now at least the one in the meeting room, the one back here has been there for six months maybe but it's going great.


So anyways my point is it's not difficult to but yeah I bought a pump which already had for for vacuum degassing rubber, but I had to get the gauge the manifold set that you hook up to the thing.

Yeah again it's like 15 bucks on Amazon so you have to get the manifold set and then I had to get a a flare set that was like 100 bucks to flare the lines.


The reason being is it comes like a 25 foot line set but you only have to go depend on where you put your condenser.

You only have to go like 10 feet.

So what do you do with the other 15 feet?

A lot of people just coil it up or they like zigzag it, you know, whatever it looks, it looks crappy and also it decreases the efficiency.


So the professional thing to do, what a professional HVAC guy would do would be he would cut the line, set back, re flare it and then have it the correct length.

So you don't have that excess.

And so that's what I end up doing.

So I did that and then I had to buy some, some sealant essentially.

So those are the three things I had to buy manifold flare tools, sealant and then I already had the pump.


So all in, I saved the very first one, that meeting or not, the meeting room, the space next door.

I got a quote from HVAC company and it came out and it was like 16 or $17,000 installed, installed.

That's what she quoted me.


I was like, really?

And she's like, yeah, well, you know, by the time we run electric and do this 16 or whatever it was, it was crazy.

And I hopped on Amazon, 600 bucks.

I'm like, I'll take a chance.

I'll take a chance.

And even know that when I had to call an HVAC guy to come out and recharge it, that was only like 200 bucks, you know, So I still saved $15,000 when it's all said and done.


So do it yourself.

Takes, takes, you know, first time doing it probably takes you to six hours to put it in the second time, like 3 hours.

Not that hard.

Done, man.

Yep, I need to do it at the cabin.

Yes, haven't done it yet.

The last thing on my list here is Marcus Aurelius, Marcus Aurelius Seinfeld.


Jerry Seinfeld's doing a lot of interviews right now.

He has a new show coming out.

He's got a lot of interviews and one of the things he keeps talking about is Marcus Aurelius and how he's really inspired by Marcus Aurelius at at this point in his life.

He's reading Meditations, which is funny.

He's talking about that book 'cause I downloaded the audiobook a while back but hadn't listened to it, It was just downloaded and I started listening to it.


But he is talking about Meditations, which was a book compiled of writings from Marcus Aurelius in his private journals, Never really intended to be a book.

It's just more him writing his thoughts and they compiled it into a book.

But, but one of the things that he's talking about is Marcus Rose talking about, you know essentially humans.


We we worry too much about gossip and people talking bad about us.

And we're we're all this hand wringing and we just, you know, you're you're so consumed, but they're going to be gone.

You're going to be gone before you know it.

Like it's so irrelevant.

It's so stupid to waste any time worrying about it.

But the most important thing you can do is focus on what what you're good at and just focus on becoming better and better at that.


That's life well lived.

That's what Marcus Aurelius, that's, you know, very condensed.

But that was one of his messages.

And I thought that's so true.

That's so true.

And that's what we do with Kodiak, but it's what we do as artisans, as Craftsman in our own shops.

That's what you do, is what Joe does, what Dusty does, what I do.


Brandon Browning, Tommy Hearn, all those guys, Jason Robertson, We're all just working every day to do our craft a little bit better than yesterday.

And then tomorrow we'll do a little bit better than we did today.

And that's all we're every one of us, every one of us is aspiring to sharpen that sword a little bit sharper every day.


Just, you know, incremental improvements, whether that's how you cure, how you cast, how you mix the conditions in your shop, your shop organization, your sales and marketing, whatever it is, you're just working on constant improvement.

But it really spoke to me watching that interview and I was like, dude, that is so relevant to to what we do to our industry.


So hold on now.

Bear in mind the only Marcus Aurelius or Aurelius, or however you say it I ever remember, is a name.

It's from that movie Gladiator.

That's loosely based on him, Commodore, Marcus Aurelius, Maximus and.


He sounded like he was a Rome.

So how was Roman Emperor?

How was this guy interviewed?

He was interviewed, Seinfeld was interviewed, and he's referencing Marcus Aurelius's book Meditations.

That's the name of the book.


Yeah, OK.

But yeah, he's emperor of Rome.

And that's the thing that Seinfeld's talking about is this guy when when Marcus Aurelius was emperor of Rome and he wasn't born into the royal family, he wasn't born into that.


He became that.

So when Marcus Aurelius was Emperor of Rome, Rome, pretty much their their borders was like 85% of the globe.

They owned everything.

Yeah, he was the most powerful man in the history of Earth at you know, pretty much ever.


I mean, since then nobody's, nobody's ruled over that swath of the planet as Marcus Rileus did.

But even at that level of power or what are we going to say, he was very focused on, on these types of things, about not worrying about gossip, not worrying about what people say, not because it's so irrelevant, but really just focusing on becoming better every day at what you do.


And you know, So anyways, I just, again, it's popping up in my social media feeds, these interviews with Seinfeld where he's talking about it and it just got me thinking about it and got me thinking about what we do and how the people that are in this industry, every day, the people are making pieces for clients, the people that.


Are running successful businesses.

Every single one of us aspires to be better than we were and.

Trying to, yeah.

You know, when we go out there to Hero's Quest, we're talking to people.

That's the conversations I'm hearing from people.

It's just how everybody is striving.

And to me that's that's inspiring.


That's amazing.

I feel we're all in the right path of of constant improvement.

And you know, iron sharpens iron.

So as each of us gets better and we kind of help each other, then collectively as a craft, we all get better, the whole industry gets better.


And that's kind of always been our message.

You know, it's the the tagline of my on my website for concrete design school forever was a rising tide lifts all boats.

That was the IT said the the, the, the concrete rising tide or something like that.


That's the main headline.

Then the second line was a a rising tide lifts all boats.

I changed that to innovators not imitators because of some shenanigans going on in the last couple of years but but forever that was the message.

A rising tide lifts all boats and I I believe there's enough for everybody.


You know this isn't like if you're successful, I can't be successful.

It's not that you're consuming everything and there's nothing left for anybody else.

So I've always believed that we can all work together and there's not there's not a deficiency mindset in my in my mind and there shouldn't be people shouldn't.


We should never feel that because somebody else's got some big project that now we can't get a big project or whatever that is, you know.

But I I think sometimes we fall prey to that as humans.

We just we think oh somebody's doing so great.

That's why I'm not doing great.

So no, bro, there's there's more than enough for everybody.


But we should work together to to lift each other, lift each other came talk, John, lift each other up.

We should work together to lift each other up.

I can't even say that three times if I wanted to.

Show what is it?

Something like show me your friends and I'll show you show you your future that kind of thing.


It's it's I mean these are the kind of quotes that's always coming and that to me is what keeps inspiring is the people with you know, customers friends, whatever you know the the more people that you bring together like minded, especially if that like minded is positive then you'll continue to aspire.


You'll continue to get better in your craft or or whatever you're doing good parent and vice versa.

You want to hang out with people that can snort 4 lines and you know you'll end up snorting them too at some point or drink it or anything else that drags you down.


You can certainly do the opposite and build yourself up.

And we see that time and time again, time and time again, over and over and over.

So yeah.

That's it.

When there's a little microcosm of this industry, you can see, you can see the people that really focus on quality.


You can see the people that want to Heckle and Jackal and throw grenades and insults of people.

They group together, You know, they find each other, they find their little tribe of of negativity.

And but then there's the tribe of we can, we can all do better, you know so.

But again, it's not.


You need to surround.

Yourself with people who empower you to become better.

That's all.

Not that we're at the top of the food chain, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that.

But what we are, I would say, are people very committed to improvement, improvement on all fronts.

Oh no.


Heck yeah, man.

Every day, every day.

I'm looking for advancements, not just the materials, but, you know, every day I show up in my shop.

I mean, that was the whole thing for finding a sensor push, right?

I mean, like, you know, these conversations of, jeez, what's going on, what?


Well, then you end up with like, Oh my goodness, look at this.

And and that totally improved your quality control.

Like, Oh my goodness, who was I just talking to a minute ago?

They had a lot of questions about color in their concrete.


They really want to improve their color in their concrete.

And so they were trying different things and higher pigment loadings and etcetera.

And I'm like, well, no, just cure it, you know, increase your cure if you're normally pulling at 12 hours.

And again, right, 12 hours from what, John?


So no, they, they're picking up the sensor push and really get an idea when the concrete kicks out, they're going to pull at 12 hours, 24 and anyway so forth and so on until they catch the color saturations that they're looking for.

And my point being is you know what, we're all at least I think we're all looking to improve, improve what we're doing and build this into and continue to be profitable doing it.


That's a good point.

Aaron had a good idea for how to end the podcast going forward.

It's going to be like a Oprah moment.

Share our favorite things Each week, John, Moving forward, you're going to share something that you like or you found or whatever.


It doesn't matter.

It could be a book, it could be music, it could be a product, it could be vitamins, It could be whatever.

And I'll do the same.

And we'll end the podcast with something this week that you, you like or I and I like.

We'll both do it.

You like and I like.

I'll let you go first.

What's something you'd like to this week?


Share is one of your favorite things.

One of my favorite things in my life at this moment is spending time with my son.

That's number one.

We get up in the morning, we're doing these little, you know, calorie burns and then we have breakfast together and he's learning to drive every afternoon.


I shut it down in time so that we work out together.


So I'm getting ready to cough again.

So I would say that's my number one right now.

Well, that's no question.

That's very inspiring and I like that.

But I'm thinking more like bromelain with you.


Every day when I talk to you, you tell me how much you love bromelain.

Bro, did you order bromelain yet?

You order bromelain?

No, I haven't.

You got to order bromelain.

It's insane.

That's what I'm referring to, John.

Something like that.

So you want to talk about Bromelain for a minute because I know you love bromelain.


You know what?


Yeah, I'll totally talk about it.

Anybody who hasn't looked into.

So we all season our meat in some way, right?

Regardless of what meat you enjoy.

And it just so happened that as steak and so forth continues to get more and more expensive, you know, all of us, like, I mean, to me, the number one would be a filet, right?


Really enjoy filets.

But you're talking about something that's, you know, upwards of 2530 bucks a pound.

So getting back into the meats that are typically considered tougher, sirloins, flank steak and so forth and so on.


And it just got me on a path of how do you know, how do I take these meats and make them more tender.

And I'm sure if people didn't know, you know, you ever took the mallets and beating them up, it all has to do with the tissue fiber or the muscle fiber and so forth and so on.


Anyway, that led me down the path of enzymes.

One specific is an enzyme that comes from pineapple bromelain and so I picked some up.

I started seasoning my meat with that and yes, Brandon heard it all.

I picked up everything from sirloins and flank steaks and some of the toughest meats I could think of and started calling up like man, you have got to try this.


Dude, every day when I get home, I'll get home.

I'll sit on the couch.

I just got home.

My son's climbing on me, you know, We're playing.

My phone rings.

It's John.

What's up, bro?

I just did pork chops.

They're insane.

They're insane.

I'm like, right?


OK, OK, send me the link.


I'll buy some.


Every day.


Did you order some?

I did.

I did.

So John for he's tested all the different ones.

He ordered papaya, he ordered bromelain.


And they all have like, sugars and stuff.


He didn't want that.

So he ended up finding like straight bromelain on Amazon and he got it and he's been testing it because he's John and he's a chemist and really enjoys it.

And it worked.

And so he sent me the link, but it was 40.

I bought it, but it's like 42 bucks for this damn Bromley.


But he swears to me it's worth it.

So we'll see.

Yeah, if anybody's interested.


And there's a couple other things we could talk about in a whole different thing.

But yeah, it's it's pretty amazing what it does to the steak and pork chops.

I haven't tried it on chicken yet.

I can't imagine it wouldn't do the same on chicken, but if you want it super tender, like ridiculous.


It's pretty amazing what these enzymes do due to breaking down the muscle fiber.

And so you're what you're doing is you're just lightly slicing the steak, you're sprinkling bromelain and you're letting it marinate in the fridge for like 4 to 6 hours before you cook it.

Is that what you're doing?





Really get the enzymes, a chance to break the muscle fibers down.


And you can't go too long because I guess, you know, some people worry about getting mushy.

In fact, who are we talking about?

Josh, Right, Josh Bradshaw, who was saying that he had done a pork butt and put some pineapple, but the end of the pork butt got mushy.


Now, I haven't seen that, but I haven't gone much longer than I'll get up in the morning.

I'll pull the steak out.

I'll kind of score the steak.

Let's just say we're doing a flank steak.

I score it a little bit and then I season it with the bromelain and then I just put it aside for the rest of the day and then grill it up in the evening.


And I'll just let anybody else I can sit here and tout it all day long.

But anybody listening, you go try that and you'll call it, it's, it's ridiculous.

How tender and it's just ridiculous.

Did you?

Buy it.

Did you buy it?


Everybody call me who's tried it.

I'm going to put a post on the ICT.

It's not even about sealer, so.

Well, it's it's such a John Shuler thing because it goes back to chemistry and you love chemistry and you love testing because you bought all the different ones and you're telling me like you're doing tests and you're trying them out and you're comparing and I just laughed and she's like, dude, this is so.


Try them with different combination of salts.

Yeah, I like garlic, right?

That's what I found out you don't like.

Garlic powder.

I hate it.


Yeah, but anyways, all right, well, that's a good one.

Mine is going to be music.


It's going to be music.

And I put together a playlist.

I'm working on a project in Arkansas.

I'm actually going down there in a few weeks to meet with the architect on this project, and I'm hiring.

In my opinion, one of the best architects in the world is somebody that I I think extremely highly of, insanely talented.


But I put together a playlist for this architect of music to inspire him for this project.

And I'm not going to share the whole playlist.

But there's one song, I told him, if if you only listen to one song on this playlist, it's this song, this is the song and this song.


I can let this thing play all day and it could be the soundtrack to my day.

I love it.

It's a group called Bowery Bowery, Bowery, Bowery, Bowery Electric, and the song is called Postscript.

And when I say it's a song sound, really a song, it's a series of sounds that weave like a tapestry.


And they come in, they come out and they they're they're repeating.

And for whatever reason I just, I love it.

Anytime it comes on, like when it's on my on my Spotify and it comes on, I love it.

I love it.

So for me, it's like a soundtrack thing.

I love Tycho.

People that have been in my shop before.


I always have Tycho.

Playing Onra is another one.

Onra there's there's a few different ones that are always in my shop at Taika.

Probably #1 com trues instead of Tom Cruise com trues.

It's another good one.

But Bowery Electric?

I had a buddy in Phoenix.


They're so obscure.

But I had a buddy in Phoenix that he's my age.

But when he was, you know, 19 or 20, this is before I know him.

He used to take mass amounts of mushrooms.

Like mass amounts of mushrooms.

And this was the CD from Bowery Electric was what he would just listen to and just kind of like, you know, kick back and relax and, you know, think about the universe or whatever.


But but he gave it to me.

He's like, dude, this one of my favorite CDs ever.

And this was back like in the early 2000s before, before people had iPods and all that kind of stuff, really.

So he gave me the CD and I've always had it.

And now you can get it on Spotify.

You know, you can just download it.

But Bowery Electric Postscript.


Check it out.

You might like it, you might not like it, whatever.

But it's it's for me.

It's indicative to what my vision is for this project, whatever that means.

Send me a link because honestly, I I just googled while you were talking and I'm not.

I'm not finding a band specifically called Bowery Electric.


It's there because it's on my Spotify.

I'm looking at it right now.

It is.

Let me.

Let me Yeah, Bowery Electric, because it's the band.

I'll play it for you.

By the way, this song is, let me see, how long is it?


16 minutes long.

Holy crap.

But I mean, I'm just playing the beginning, but it just has these.

I play for my wife and she's totally bored by it.

You know, Like, it's because it's going to want.

It builds and it kind of weaves in and it weaves out.

And another one comes in.


I'm like, Oh my God, listen, listen.

She's like, shut up.

That's stupid.

And I'm like, no, it's not stupid.

It's amazing.

And it is amazing my buddy that told I won't tell you name, but my buddy that gave me that and I used to take mushrooms.

He had an interesting experience on mushrooms once and he told me about it.


He said he's never really told other people about it, but essentially I always thought it was so profound.

What he said is he took a huge amount of mushrooms and he was younger.

He used to take mushrooms and and read the Koran, read the Bible, read the Torah, have these crazy discussions with his friends about the meaning of life and religion and you know, Buddha and God and all the different things, right?


He was just looking.

He was looking, he he said he was searching.

He didn't know what he's searching for.

He was just searching.

He was like 19/20/21 and he was searching for something.

He didn't know what, but he said he took like this mass, mass amounts one time.

And he said he was floating in space.


He's like literally, dude, I was in space, I was in outer space, I was in the stars in space.

And he's like, I met God and God was me.

I was God.

I was like, OK, And he's like, but here's what he said that I thought was so profound, besides him being God was.


He said in that moment I remembered everything I'd ever forgotten.

The whole beginning of time.

I remembered everything, all the all the world's events, instantaneously I remembered everything I'd ever forgotten.


And I was like, he's like, dude, he's like I've never been afraid of death Since then.

He's like, I knew like this isn't the end, life isn't the end and he's like I've never feared death.

And and for him, he became a very, very, very successful restaurant tour in Phoenix.


He's extremely successful.

But he said that that that one experience changed his life because up until then, he lived from a place of fear.

After that, he had No Fear.

And he started living his life from a place of he's just going to take risks.

And he's like, there's there's nothing to fear in life.

And since then, he was just way more brave, where a lot of people, they kind of operate from a place of not wanting to, not want to jump in the deep end.


You know, you just kind of put your toe in.

You're like, I don't know, I don't know.

He's like, screw it.

He's like, I got nothing to lose.

And that's the way he's lived his life.

And it's paid dividends because, you know, you make big plays, there's big rewards and he's been extremely successful, but he said it was that one experience for him that changed his life.

So anyways, I thought that was pretty profound.


Right, Alan.

And I keep forgetting there's someone we know who's very much into the mycology.


Well, maybe, maybe don't say their name on this podcast in case in case a certain three letter organizations listening because you know, they're always.


Well, no, this is.

It's legal in their state.


Is he is he in Oregon?

I don't know where.

He's at but.

And I have totally, you know, I honestly, I got to look up again.

But no, no, they.

So he's got like boosts.

Yeah, he sets up.


He's very much into it.

And yeah, I mean, I think that I'm personally was not a big fan, just as like I was.

I'm not a big fan of marijuana myself.

I I don't care for the way it makes me feel, but it's very intriguing stuff.


Well, it's yeah, it's intriguing the whole psychedelics and the way they're helping people with depression and anxiety and everything else.

And I go back to if we're grown adults that are free to do what we want, why let people do what they want if they're not hurting anybody?

Let people do what they want.


I I am of the opinion that most everything should be legalized for consenting adults.

If they if you're free, then you're free and you should be free to do what you want.

You can smoke.

You need Big Macs.

You can, you can drink, you know, 400 coach a day, somebody.


Yeah, you have that right already.

But, you know, if you want to take a mushroom that grew in the ground, oh, God forbid, you can't do that.

You know, you can't have this experience in your mind that would be really bad.

It's like just let people let people do what they do.

Yeah, I'm intrigued by it.

I personally, I wish I lived some place where it was legal because I'd probably be, I'd probably be a pretty, pretty regular customer to those establishments.


But yeah, I live in Kansas.

They're kind of behind the times.

Well I'm just saying so if if if the person, I just honestly, I can't remember.

I'll go through my Facebook list and it's someone I'm very familiar with.

I just got to I forget.


But so anybody's listening to this through the guys very much into my ecology.

Do me a favor and just shoot me a message because I I, I think I actually told him I would love to get in a conversation with him about that in the different times.

Excuse me?


I know I almost lost it.

Yeah, shoot me a message, honestly, because I I really would like to get together with you and talk about that stuff.



I am, dude.


So I talked about Tostado in the last podcast, my buddy That's Lebowski in real life.

And my mom died, I don't know how many years ago now, seven years ago, I think.

And it was a really bad time in my life, not just because my mom died.

I mean, that's bad enough.

But then everything that happened with my family and the infighting and all the stuff that happened.



And I told Aaron I knew of this place that did Ayahuasca ceremonies.

And IA buddy of mine had been to a few of them there.

And he's like, yeah, bro, you know, put in, let him know.

And it has to be right.

You have to be referred to, to get an invite.


But he's like, you know, you know, some I'll send an e-mail.

And they sent me an e-mail and said, hey, here's here's the dates.

So I called Tostado.

I'm like, hey, bro, you want to go in the desert and do ayahuasca?

He's like, Yep, tell me the dates.

I'm like, that's what I love about this guy.


I didn't do it.

I wish I would have.

I kind of felt like I needed.

I need to go like, on a spiritual journey of sorts.

You know what?

Like a walkabout that?

Would be cool.

I think that would be cool, yeah.

I I felt like I needed some clarification.

Did you ever watch Young Guns too?


Yes, when they do peyote.

Yeah, I'm a butterfly.

Ride backwards on the horse.


Hey, you guys.

You see the size of that chicken?

You know, shooting guns?

Oh, my God.

But yeah, I kind of.

I needed.

I needed that in my life.

That moment.

I didn't do it.


I wish I would have.

At this point.

I'm still interested, though.

I'm still.

All that stuff interests me.

I'm at a point in life to where I'm not scared by it.

I don't.

Not threatened by it.

It's not.

I I think it's just one of those things.

As humans, you know if you're interested and you're a grown adult, you should be able to do those things if you want to, no question.


So, well, it's it's undeniable, you know.

Now here we're just focused on psychedelics for a moment, but psychedelics are now playing major, major roles in mental illness treatments.

You know, we're looking at mental illness and depression and all these kind of things, very different now.


And PTS, DS and I could keep going on.

And where psychedelics is, is really helping people tremendously.

Where before you know, both from, especially from an American Medical point of view, you know, you were just looking at some loser trying to get high.


Well, no, man.

I mean, there's like legitimate potentials for helping people with psychedelic treatments.

So, you know, and that's one of them.

I agree, John.

I agree.

Now we got off on this because I I shared my favorite thing, which is Bower Electric, and then we got onto mushrooms and everything else.


But I agree, it's an interesting conversation.

It's an interesting conversation.

This is the kind of conversations we have at the training events at like 8:00 at night, when most people have already gone back to the hotels, there's like 3 or 4 that are just hanging on drinking whiskey.

Well, this is what we need to do at the next hoedown.


Yeah, what do do?



Yeah, right.

All of us.

And then cast concrete, right?

That would make the heck of an event.

You guys see the size of that chicken?

Oh yeah, come on.


That would be awesome, man.

Now that would be a hoe down in the hall.


Would be, it would be.

Well, there's some, there's some people that go to those events that I think can can get what we need.

But anyways, all right, John.


Well, on that note, let's wrap it up and we'll do this again next week.

All right my friend.

Good talking to you.

Have a great one.

Adios, adios.


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