DIY Concrete Countertops for Outdoor Kitchens and the Kodiak Pro Road Tour

This week on The Concrete Podcast, we’re laying it all out on the table. We’re talking DIY concrete countertops for outdoor kitchens, finding the slickest mold releases for your foam casting projects, and cruising through the heartland with the Kodiak Pro Road Tour. If you have a shop in Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, or Missouri and think it’s the perfect spot for a Demo Day, give us a shout. We’re scouting for cool places to roll into.




Hello, John Schuler.

Hello, Brandon Gore.

How's it going, man?

Good, good.

Just just got done demoulding A erosion sink.

The one I talked about last week just got done D molding.


That you made the whole mold out of.


Yeah, the clear rubber mold.

So yesterday I came into the shop and I needed to build the backer form, which I do out of foam.

I needed to build the backer form for the erosion sink.

And you know, I actually really enjoy building backer forms, but it gets a little complex with an erosion sink because it's not a geometric shape, you know, it's not a a rectangle or anything that I can just take measurements for the offset and cut the foam and stack it like a pyramid.


You have to do it layer by layer by layer and do these custom things.

So it's it's a lot of measurements in points like a, you know, a little point data map thing on each piece of foam that I can cut out and I stack it.

So it's kind of like almost like a a topographic map on the underside but like these big steps, like 1 inch steps.


But it's enjoyable, but it takes a long time.

So I came in the morning and I did that.

Then I propped the form, which, you know, for for me that means cleaning it with isopropyl alcohol, a magic eraser.

I get it super super clean.

I get all the little bits of silicone.


I do all that.

Then I come back with gel gloss, do my coat of gel gloss, buff that.

Then I do a, you know, another vacuum.

I blow it out again.

And then I do Aqua con, which I have a love hate with Aqua con, but then I do Aqua con.

So I had to do all that and it was like, I don't know, I called you, 'cause I was going to get ice, but it was like 2:00.


I need to be home by 5:00.

I try to be home by 5:00.

So it's 2:00 and I was going to get ice and I called you.

I'm like, I think I want to cast this and you're like, yeah, cool.

So it's two.

I go get ice, I come back, It's 4 1/2 bags for this sink.

So I I batch out the TVPI, batch out the ice and water.


I batch out the fiber.

I batch you out a half bag and then I just load up the drum mixer and turn it on and let it run.

I think I called you back or I called somebody.

I had a conversation for 5-10 minutes.

Killed the mixer, let it, let it flash for 10 minutes, turn it back on.


Added the fiber and then poured the sink.

Put the backer form in.

Finished pouring it, poured all these little rubber molds.

Cleaned up the shop.

Like when I say clean, I I I really do legitimate clean.

I put everything away.

I take out the trash.

I sweep the floor.

Everything is is pristine when I leave 'cause I hate coming into a dirty shop.


And then I got my truck, called my wife, hey, I'm heading home.

She started dinner.

I pulled into my driveway.

I took a photo.

What time was it when I pulled into my driveway?


Let's see.

You said start at 3:00.

I'm going to say 634. 59 Oh, yeah, One minute before 5.


And I thought it was like, so epic that my intention was to be home at 5:00.

And I pulled in the driveway and took a photo.

You can see the clock in the photo of my house. 459.

I started at 2:00.

Well, I say I went to go.

I went to go get ice at 2:00.

So I had to go get ice at three.

No two.


But I was home. 459.


So that's that's, you know, just my little success story of maker mix and the ease of use and doing it by yourself and low stress and really the drum mixer is low stress because that thing just mixes and you just.



Know, sip your iced coffee and wait for it to get done.

And yeah, Another thing I like about it, John, is I shut it off and then I just, you know, crank the wheel so it tilts down.

And I fill up a bucket about halfway.

And then I tilt it up a little bit and I slide that bucket and put another bucket and I fill that one up about halfway.


And I slide that bucket and put another bucket and that one I just, let's sit there to catch the drips, right?

And I go over and I pour and I pour and I come back over and I keep doing it and it's just, again, super clean, super low stress.

There's not a mess.

It's very controlled.


You know, when I did the, the vertical shaft mixer, which I still have, and there's definitely a place for that.

But when I did that, that that shoot on the bottom was very imprecise.

You know, you open it up and it kinda like the blades are spinning and the concrete's just kind of going all directions and always end up making a mess.


Always end up making a mess under my mixer.

At least this is my experience with 360.

But the trail mixer, it's it's a little cleaner, a little, I'd say, lower stress in a way.

It's slower, that's for sure.

Like I I made the mistake the first couple times of rushing it and pouring it and having some clumps of unmixed material in it, right?


Yeah, you gotta let it go.


So now I just let it go 10 minutes, 15 minutes where with the vertical shaft might let it go for three or 4 minutes right before it's like really mixed and I can shut it off.

A lot of flash this 110 minutes, 15, so you gotta let it go longer, but this time I let it go longer and the mix was perfect, perfect, perfect. 72 grams, 72 grams of TBP.


I did 20% ice.

The mix was 64° when I was casting, which for me is perfect.

I like, I like low to mid 60s because I find that flow is the best.

So 626364 and that range is for me optimal.

And yeah dude, perfect, perfect.


So I came in this morning, de molded it, mold came out perfect.

The piece was perfect.

There's not.

There's, there's.

It's just so good, so nice.

So I'm making a little video of this process.

I'll post a video of it when it's done.

But yeah, it's a beautiful sink.

Well, everything you're talking about, like, you know, years ago, like we've talked about this, so I'll bring it up there.


Years ago, man, I used to, but this is when I was doing the marbling techniques.

So I had, you know, I think I had four mortar men.

That's the smaller version.

And then I had, what is it, the 320?

Is that the big one, The 3:50?


It's 350, right?

360 is the vertical shaft, 350 is the big barrel mixer.

So I had all those and oh, they were great, they were great.

You know, I I just hindsight being 2020 there's just lots of things that I look back now that were so difficult with that like #1 the mortar men, the little ones.


You know I used to always have to put spacers to try to get the the barrels tipped down but the 3:50 is super easy.


You just turn it and set it to wherever you want it.

And then for me at the time now again this is a different time was clean up you know cleaning those out.


But again different mix.

You know, we could talk about that all some other time, but yeah, they were, they were difficult compared to speaking to what we're doing now for clean up.

But overall in general now I look and make, I wouldn't want the mortar men back.

Those are just a little too small and again, they're just not set up adequately to tip the barrels easily like we're used what we're used to doing.


But yeah, I wouldn't mind having one back in the shop now complete.

But I'm so used to the 120 now.

My point being is if I had a comparison to like between the 120 and the smaller mortar man, then I would stick with my 1:20 because it it it calls material better, it has better shear where the mortar man, which is the little like, you know, I still got to go back to put a block in it and trying to tip it right.


And I had to make up this way of hanging weights on the end of it, you know, so that it didn't tip too far.

And if they've updated that, then that would be a good choice for a small one.

But comparatively speaking a 360 versus A-350 and experience is clearly showing us, you know, regardless, yes, we can talk materials but experience, hands on experience is showing that the barrel mixer at what, 1/2 maybe third the cost of an IMER 360 you know does the job very adequately.


You know with these high end mixes when they're designed around their ability to be used.

So, and there's a a few other benefits to it is AII mixed 4 1/2 bags in it, which would be pretty difficult to do in a 360.


It would just be like a couple inches on the bottom.

It would just keep pushing.

It yeah, it wouldn't have enough to really mix it, so I mixed 4 1/2 bags in it.

But you can mix up to, according to Martin, up to 1000 lbs.

I've mixed up to 800 lbs and it mixed fine 800 lbs.


You can't mix 800 lbs in a 360.

You can Max out at 600 lbs.

That's where I maxed out.

Anything beyond that you're gonna be above the arms of the mixer.

So according to Martin, you can do up to 1000.

Like I said, I did up to 800, but I did as low as as 4 1/2 bags.


It's 110 power, not 220.

So 110, you can go to any job site without having to, you know, if you were going to cast on site or just even in your own shop, You know, every shop I've had, I've had to have an electrician come and run a dedicated 50 amp circuit and put a, you know, 220 plug and you know, if it was you, I know you're comfortable doing that stuff, but I'm not, so I got to pay somebody to come do it.


So 110, that's a lot easier.

And I'm telling you the footprint of the mixer is smaller than the 360.

It takes up a lot less space in my shop than the 360 did.

So it's just, you know, it's just a a more small shop friendly mixer than the 360.


I still have the 360.

I'm not going to sell the 360.

I'll keep it.

There's definitely going to be a time that I'm going to be glad I have it, but if I was just going to buy one mixer, if I was a new shop starting and I'm going to focus on SCCGFRC again, caveat SCCSCC mix, I would get the the the biggest imer, drum, slash, barrel, mixer, whatever you wanna call it.


I'd get the biggest one.

That's the one I have.

Oh, you got a 750?

Well, I think I no, no, hold on John.

I have the biggest electric they make.

I think it's 750's gas.

Oh, OK.

So when I bought mine, maybe they have a bigger one now, but when I bought mine in 2004, I got the biggest drum mixer they made that was electric at the time and maybe it's bigger now.


And that one was 12 cubic feet is what they claim 12 cubic feet, which, you know, I don't think so, but maybe, but that's the one I bought.

What I was going to say is if you're focusing on the other mixes, the dusty Crete, the ECC, that kind of stuff, you still want a vertical shaft, the drum mixer.


Some people might be using them like that.

I don't know, but I'm just saying I don't think it has enough power, enough shear to really blend those thicker mixes that don't want to flow because it really needs the flowing.

Oh, I'm hitting everything out because I got my hands going.

It really needs the flowing through the blades that are spinning to mix it.


And it's using gravity to do that where the vertical shaft is literally forcing the blades through the mix.

It's not relying on gravity to pull it through.

So I I think if you're going to specialize in the ECC mixes and you still need to do a vertical shaft, that's my opinion.


Yeah, just while you were talking.


I didn't hear a word of it.

But anyway, I know the.


I know I'd zone out, dude, when you're talking, I get on Instagram.

I get on TikTok.

And that's why you listen this podcast when you're done.

I'm like, Yep, all right, so.


No, actually while you were talking, I went ahead and went to the aimer and yeah, I'm the only bigger is the vertical shaft.

I guess they're not carrying the barrel mixer in the larger size anymore.

At least it's not being listed on their website.

It's the three 50s, the 12 cubic foot.

Yeah, that's one.


I have 12 cubic, yeah.

Yep, Yep, Yep.

No, that's what I had.

I love that mixer.

It was great.

I literally only sold it.

Well, I mean hindsight 2020, you know space and etcetera, etcetera.

But yeah sold it when we when I moved to the vertical shaft but that was you know gosh man it seems so long ago, right.


I mean so many years passed by when when moved to ECC and etcetera, etcetera.

And yeah, no, I I would definitely I just couldn't do that.

I can't do the again mortar man versus the what are they calling it anyway mortar man versus the 120, you know I think the 120 is the way to go.


Yeah, Imperatively speaking, yeah.

Yep, Yep, Yep.

So anyways, that's what I've been up to today, John, but I enjoy it.

I enjoy working in my shop solo the solitude.

I've been listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, Let me let me find this guy's name, let me pull up Spotify real quick, 'cause I'm currently still listening to it.


It's episode 21362136, Graham Hancock and Flint Dibble.

And there couldn't be a better name for this dummy than Flint Dibble.

He looks like he sounds, He sounds like he looks, he's a pompous, pretentious little twat and it's fascinating.


I'm listening to this and it's kind of getting my blood boiling in a little bit because there's parallels between this, this dynamic and in the concrete world we live in.

And what's going on is Graham Hancock, who is a well known archaeologist.

He has a a theory of a lost civilization, a previous advanced civilization, and he had ATV show on history.


Oh yeah, History Channel.

Yeah, History Channel.

He had ATV show on there, Ancient ancient archaeology.

I don't know, I watch it.

It was a good show.

But anyways, you know, all the haters have to come up out of the woodwork, all these like little little pretentious twats going to come up out of the woodwork and and throw stones at them.

And so he's kind of made the he's been on Joe Rogan numerous times, but he's made the offer.


If anybody wants to come on and debate with me, I'd be happy to do it.

Well, this guy Flint Dibble, who's like a kid essentially, who has hardly any experience but thinks he knows everything.

Listen, this guy, you can tell like he thinks he knows everything in the world, but listen to him, you know, he doesn't know anything compared to the guy that actually has the experience, Graham Hancock, but he's just, he's just so pretentious and like the attempted character, character assassination of Graham Hancock.


Graham Hancock's played clips.

It's been very uncomfortable by the way like the vodka playing clips of of podcast and YouTube videos at this point.

Devil guy made like talking trash about him, huh?

And you know he's just kind of making a point like you have done everything you can to try to to assassinate my character.


In my experience in my viewpoints and the the the archaeologicals industry as a whole because he has new ideas, different ideas.

They've shunned him.

You know, how dare you go against what we say is facts.

And anyways, I just, I I I'm listening to it and I think about my 21 years and you know you're you're 2 decades in this industry of kind of the same thing.


Whenever you have a different viewpoint, you have a different take on things.

The the old guard does everything they can to hurt your character, to assassinate your your character, to, you know, push back, to diminish, to do whatever.


To blow your candle out.

Exactly, exactly.

Because it goes against and it's just, you know, I've said this numerous times, it's not just the concrete industry, it's all industries.

But listen to this podcast, this, you know, the archaeological world, it's everything.

If you are, if you're an outlier, if you're an innovator, if you're on the cutting edge, everybody way back here hates your guts.


They talk so much trash.

They do everything they can to hurt your reputation, to hurt what you're doing, to to cast doubt in people's minds about it, which is fascinating.

It's the the human dynamic is fascinating, but that's what I I've been listening to that today while I've been working, and it's getting me all all worked up.


My blood pressure's been up most of the time.

I forget his name now, but remember we we did a podcast where and I I'm sorry I forget his name.

But the same thing this environmentalist who's in Africa and they were trying to figure out, you know about the grasslands and the whole 9 yards.


And it was it was interesting about this as I learned the history of it is the history of it.

He thought it was from the elephants stomping the grass to the point that they came.

They meaning whoever like that that had this big thing and they wiped out like half the elephants kind of thing thinking hey they're really protecting things now.


He's a big proponent of and I can't believe I I can't remember the wording, but you know basically just treat the land right, you know graze it etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, Land Management something like that.

And the industry that he's a part of has completely shunned him.


And see, we hear that a lot in California, right, with the because of the fires and stuff that you know, if if you don't allow the grazing to happen and if you don't allow the forests management to happen, then we have catastrophic fires because of the fuel.

So it's just it, but it's yeah, there's lots of parallels.


All kinds of industries, man, all kinds of segments, you know, where for whatever reason, it is what it is, and it'll never.


Yeah Yep.

So another thing that I've been working on this last week is I'm casting these concrete picture frames and I had foam see and seed to make the the molds to make the shape and it's EPS foam and I did the 1st frame and it was my mistake.


I I measured it incorrectly and I made it 1/2 inch too big.

What I also experienced when I made that frame was I used Aquacon as a release on the foam And when I went to go remove the frame from the foam the foam had really bonded to the to the concrete and it was extremely time intensive and and difficult to get the foam off.


And it left you know a lot of residual foam on the concrete that I didn't have to like take diamond hand pads and water and scrub and scrub and scrub and scrub and you know just a pain in the butt.

So I thought, well let me test some other releases before I do another frame cause I've cast 7 total now or 8 with the remake.


So let me test some other things.

So I tested the first Test was I did mineral oil, Pam cooking spray.

So just normal Pam and Vaseline was the three.

I poured the concrete and I called you and I said, John, what do you think?


Which of these three do you think's gonna be the best?

And you're like, without even hesitant, you're like Pam.

Pam's gonna be the best.





Next day I came in be molded it.

I'll be damned if John wasn't right.

Pam was the best.

And you're you're like, yeah, it's just it's just vegetable oil spray.


Vegetable oil.

I was like, yeah, dude.

And the thing about I noticed about the Pam was the concrete.

I cast just white maker mix the concrete in the Vaseline and in the mineral oil forms had a yellowish tint to it when I de molded it.

So the release it actually stained the surface Now is it is it a permanent stain of if I acid etched it would it come off?


I don't know, but the Pam when I de molded it, it was bright white.

You can put it inside with the other ones and you can see a a very stark tonal difference in the concrete versus the other two.

OK, so then I got on Facebook on the Kodiak Pro discussion page and I posted this, my findings.


And I asked, you know, if I'm open to other suggestions.

A lot of people said Crisco, Kyle Davis, Joe Bates, said Crisco and another group, this kind of a very parallel thing was going on.

Somebody's asking about this and somebody said diluted Dawn dish soap.


They said mixed dish soap with water and then paint it on, let it dry.

So that's what I tried the second time.

So I did Crisco and then I did diluted Dawn dish soap.

Let me tell you diluted Dawn dish soap.

I might as well just put Elmer's glue.

In the phone it didn't do that one it.

Didn't do anything.

It didn't do a damn thing.


So nothing.

So do not do diluted dish soap.

The Crisco, what I liked about it is it's vegetable oil, like the Pam, but it's thicker and so, you know, EPS.

It has a texture to it and the Crisco kind of filled it.

And if you wanted to get precise, I'm sure you could, you know, butter it in with like a Bondo applicator.


I think that's what Joe does to really kind of fill in all those low spots.

I just used a paper towel and wiped it in but it definitely filled in a lot of the low spots.

But when I cast the concrete next day, I came in and de molded it literally as I flexed the foam like I'm used to like having to break it off.


The concrete fell out like under its own just gravity.

It just fell out of the the form.

So Crisco by far and is bright white like the Pam because obviously it's vegetable oil, bright white where the the other ones not so much.


I just I tried to get the Don dish shop out.

I just threw it away.

I couldn't even get it to come out and I didn't feel like you know spending 20 minutes breaking off little pieces.

So so anyways that was my findings.

Maybe maybe this will help somebody maybe it won't, I don't know.

But you know, that's what I.

Found Yeah, Joe does a lot.

He does a lot of the foam, foam earnserts and all that and I do know his his go to has been the Crisco.


Yeah, yeah, who would have thought Crisco?

I definitely.


I No reason.

I thought Pam.

Dude, I didn't even I I don't even know I have Pam here for some reason.

At some point way back in the day, I picked up some Pam.

I don't know what I was doing and I don't think it was concrete, but I don't know.


But I had a can.

I'm just like, oh hell, I'll try it and I'll be damned.

It worked almost as good as the Crisco.

Almost as good.

Not quite as good but probably 8590%.

And it's a lot easier to apply because you can just spray it.

Yeah, you just spray it.

Yeah, so anyways.

Well, there you go man.



There you go.

You gonna you gonna have to post those results and let everybody know so that somewhere out there someone's like that doesn't work.

You guys don't know.

What you're doing True.


And it'll be a salesman at some company that'll tell us we're wrong.


Who knows?

No, that's why I think I told you.

That's why I like the.

I mean what I've been using lately with my castings is 880 VOC plus, so that and again it's a it's an oil based material and I found what I do.


Yeah, it works great.

I really like it.

What kind of oil is it?

I haven't even looked, to be honest with you.

It's probably a mineral oil or something.

I can't imagine it being anything.

Yeah, see?

Super fancy.

John and I, or not John, Joe and I were talking yesterday because I called him to tell him how great the Crisco was and he is trying out some Polytech release.


But it's mineral oil.

It it says in the data sheet it's just like mineral oil with a carrier so it can spray, right?

But my experience in mineral oil, if I paint it on and then I take a paper towel and wipe off the excess was A it didn't really secorate and B, it left a yellow residue.


So I don't know, I don't know about mineral oil.

I think vegetable oil is far better.

Well, you might be right.

I don't know.

See, I'm going to go again while you're talking, I was just going to Crescent and see what they say about the ADDVOC Extra plus non-toxic release agent water based.


So that can't be it.

Here it is now, environmentally inversion industrial staple, blah blah blah.

Yeah, but I don't know, I'd have to pull up a a tech data sheet or an SDS and I'm not seeing it easily available right now.


So that's what I like.

I've been using the Crete.

Crete Lease 880 VOC extra, yeah.



Oh, there it goes right there.

Oh, you're right.

No, it's a blend of vegetable oil, vegetable oil and very minimal mineral oil.


I wonder why they put any mineral oil.

I mean why?

Why even put any in?

Yeah, I don't know.

Well, you're the chemist, John.

I'm relying on your chemical knowledge.


No, I don't.

I don't know why they would need them, but I don't know.

I don't know vegetable oils.

I mean, with all the corn available, I mean, what other vegetable are they pulling oil from?


Is there soy oil?


Oil I.

Don't know.

I got nipples, John.

Can you milk me?

So, I don't know, man.

I don't know.


You know, vegetable oil is not my.

It's not.


I just haven't spent enough time figuring out vegetable oil.

But I'm sure you squish something.


Now you're going to get some oil out.


You remember that scene?

Meet, meet the parents, was it?

Meet the Fockers or meet the parents?

I can't remember Robert De Niro where he says that he's like, I got nipples, can you milk me?


Ben Stiller's talking about he milks.

He milks his cat's nipples to get milk to feed the little baby.

He's like, I just yeah.

Anyways, it's such a great scene, so I got a list here of other things to talk about.

Hit me, hit me.

Well, this one's a sad one, John.

It's a sad one, but it's also, it was it was very touching as well.


So Mark Hohn or Han, he passed away.

Mark came to a workshop in Tempe, AZ.

I don't know, 2005 or 6 a long time ago.

I mean, I've known Mark forever.

Yeah, long time.


Yeah, and such a nice guy.

Always a nice guy.

Maybe he came to two workshops.

I know he came to at least one.

I feel like maybe he came to another.

He developed cancer and I've been following him as a lot of people have been very.

Rare cancer, yeah.

He developed cancer and he's been battling it for a few years now and posting his updates on Facebook.


And I've been following it.

And you know, I just sent him a care package a while back with a Kodiak pro flannel and and stuff and just telling him, you know, we're thinking about him and and you know, wishing him well and he passed away.


Yeah, he passed away.

And so his son reached out to me and just said, listen, my dad thought very highly of the concrete industry and his friends that he made in that industry, and he wanted to be buried in the Kodiak pro flannel.


That's awesome, Yeah.


That's cool, man.

Well, again, I don't know if you knew this, but today's actually his birthday.

Is it?


To pop up.

Yeah, I swear, Jesus, today's his birthday, so I just put a little message.

But good message To who?

To who?


Just to the ecos, the ethos.

You think in heaven.

You're reading your Facebook messages.

Yeah, right he is.

I don't think so.

It's like when somebody post, post a Facebook message to their like their six month daughter.

You brighten my life so much.

Mommy and daddy love you.

They're not reading Facebook.


They're six months old.

Stop it.

Have a Sunday.

Stop it.

I'll bet in Yeah.

No, it's probably again the the evolution of things.

Facebook may not even be around 10 years from now or 20 years from now.

No, it is to be.


I mean it's he's so profitable he'll he'll just keep buying his way into relevancy.


Anybody pops up like Instagram that starts gaining ground, he just buys them.

Yeah, picks them up.


So that's what we need to do.

Let's make some money.

So anyways.

But but the whole Mark Hahn thing that was very I was very flattered that he that that that that's what they wanted to do so.


So we wish him and his family condolences condolences and yeah.

He was a great guy.

Yep, what else on my list here.

So I went over the phone release rubber.

I received a few questions, so I posted, you know, an Instagram video and a Facebook video of pouring that rubber mold.

And people are like, what's what's, what's the Amber stuff?


And I've gotten private messages and DMS, you know, asking about the rubber.

In previous podcasts I've recommended Polytech 7445.

I've used every other rubber out there.

I've used industrial polymers.

I've used Smooth on.

I've used a lot of different manufacturers and the best rubber by far.


Night and day difference.

If you're doing this professionally for a living as Polytech, I really, truly believe this.

Hiram Ball believed this.

He preached this.

If you do this for a living, there's a difference and the difference is the quality of the material.

So Polytech far superior in my opinion in my experience.


But I've used Polytech 7445 for years and years and years but I've noticed and I've always noticed this that when I cast against white concrete, especially with a new mold, but it continues kind of forever, but especially the new mold, it transfers a yellow hue to the concrete and they're obviously putting pigment into the rubber cause the rubber is not mustard yellow you know but they're putting pigment in there.


And so I reached out to to Bill at Polytech, I don't know a month ago, whenever six weeks ago and just said listen man, I I feel like I've talked to you guys about this before but I feel that Polytech 7445, you know if I cast any color besides white, it's a non issue because you can't see it.


But if I cast white, I get this slight yellow hue that then is a real pain in the butt to to remove you have to do a heavy acid etch and when you do that then you expose a lot more sands and I just don't want to do that.

What's the rubber you recommend?

So he, he went through all the different rubbers and we talked about them and I settled on 7430 which is a 30 durometers, a little bit softer, but you know whatever, it's a trade off, but it doesn't have any pigment whatsoever.


So it's clear it's a amber color.

It's just a natural color of the the resins and that's why I used to pour this mold.

ID molded it today, no hue whatsoever.

Now there is a difference in color of the concrete, which has happened to me no matter what and that has to do with it's a different material.


So if I cast on melamine and then I have foam, in the form where the foam was is a slightly different shade of concrete, It just cures differently.

If I cast against fiberglass, it's a slightly different shade of concrete.

If I cast against rubber, slightly different shade.

Now that shade, that that shade difference always goes away and I'll see.


I'm guaranteed I'll go away with this when I acid at you.

Once I acid at you, that little bit of a shade difference which comes from curing, it goes away and you don't even see it.

But as far as any color like color difference zero, there's not any there.

There was like no transfer of the amber color because there's no pigment in it.


So anyways, so I've had a lot of questions, so I just want to hit on that 7430 that's on my list.

Now we're going to have Polytech materials at Hero's Quest, right?


So let's talk about Hero's Quest.

That's on my list here, specifically Ramcrete.


So I've received This week, I've received 3 emails from customers wanting to do Ramcrete.

Big designers want to do Ramcrete on projects, some pretty insane projects.

Ramcrete, even though we're really you know talking about the concrete Heroes quest in Napa, which is coming up in two weeks, really talking about the advanced mold making aspect of it, which Polytech is, is we're using Polytech materials or some materials for that.


We really focus on that.

This is the only class this year, 2024, where we're going to teach Ramcrete.

So ramcrete is a rammed earth aesthetic in a thin section and we get that by using these ultra high performance concrete binders that we've developed the Kodiak Pro with the the rammed earth aspect of of placement and mixed rheology.


OK, so by combining these binders, we're able to do things that you can never do before.

So if you're just using ordinary Portland cement or you're trying to, you know, I've seen guys try to put polymer in it, which that's been going on forever.

I, I, I went and helped Quinton Branch, He's a ramberth builder in Oracle, Arizona, helped him do a project.


And he was just dumping acrylic into the mixed water.

And I'm like, why are you doing that?

And he's like, 'cause it sounds good.

I'm like, what do you mean it sounds good?

He's like, well, it says it, you know, it reduces the fluorescence and increases water resistance.

I'm like, I don't know bro, but so people have been trying this stuff for a long time.


But if you're using those mixes, even if you bump the Portland cement, the binder aspect up to 2030%, you're still not going to be able to cast, you know, one inch, 2 inch thick.

And as you said, some people are doing like half inch thick sections and have it hold together.

It just won't hold together.

But with Ramcrete, with these materials that we developed, you're able to do that.


So if you're interested in doing these rammed earth aesthetics and the guys that have taken previous workshops that are doing it are doing insane things with it, it's incredible what's coming out.

It's the cutting edge, It's what designers and architects are super hot on.


It's going to be the big thing for the next several years.

So if you want to learn how to do that, look at the Concrete Heroes quest.


It's the only workshop.

I just want to emphasize this because I'm sure we have three other workshops.

After this, people are going to e-mail me like, hey, we're going to go over Ramcrete.


No, no, no, no, no, no.

The only class we're doing it is Concrete Hero's Quest in two weeks.

So if you want to learn that, get in that workshop today, book your flight today, book your own car today.

So that's my advice on Concrete Hero's question.



Any thoughts, John?

Yeah, there's only, well, you said two slots open back up, so I know there's not many slots left.

Well, unless you push it over.

Yeah, well, well, you know, we'll make room.

So yeah, we want we want the whole concrete community to join us in Napa.


If we could have 1000 people, I'd be psyched.

We'll make room, John.

We'll make room.

So there's that.

I'm just going to keep running through my list and we can talk about it.

So I got another call from a guy that was very interesting.


He had contacted A competitor, competing company and he's wanting to do SCCGFRC.

And here's what we talk about.

What sets us apart?

What's this Kodiak Pro apart?


What's this concrete design school apart?

And you know, you were giving me all the benefits.

And I agree with all that stuff, you know, innovation, quality, all that's true.

It's all true.

But the thing in my mind that sets us apart from everybody else is experience, and that we do this today for a living.


I'm in my shop today casting concrete.

You're in your shop casting concrete.

You're not just casting little cubes or samples or doing compressive brakes or painting sealer on a little 4x4 tile.

No, I'm making things that I'm shipping the clients day in, day out, and so are you.


And that's what makes all the difference.

So this guy calls me up and he'd contacted another company and he's interested in doing SECGFRC.

And the salesperson that he talked to had no idea what SEC was.

Was it was totally blowing his mind.

Had no idea.


Totally confused, right?

So he called.

See, I find that hard to believe.

I don't find it hard to believe.

OK, I don't.

Find it hard to believe because you know you get hired.

Dude, I I fucking hate Siri.

Get that, could you try again?

No, I can't shut.



Try again, Siri.


Let's see.

Shut up, Siri.

It says.

Well, it didn't.

It didn't say it out loud.

It said OK, I will, That's just what I said on the screen.

I hate Siri, dude.

Anyways, it got me off track, but I I totally believe that to be true because these these companies hire people to come in and then they answer the phones and they're the point of contact.


Not only that, but they're they're in, they're in.

In house experts are people that did concrete 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago.

That means nothing.


I used to be a land surveyor 20 years ago.

I used to be a director of sales 20 years ago, Right.



Well, land surveyor 2025 years ago.

Director of sales 22 years ago, 23 years ago.


I would never ever pick up the phone and give advice to somebody on how to be a director of sales or how to be a land surveyor today just because I did it a quarter century ago, right?


It means nothing.

Real world experience means everything.

So anyways, back to this guy.

He calls me up once, he'll do SCCGFRC and we start talking and I'm and I'm telling him about Kodiak and he'd been referred.

A couple people he'd reached out to referred him to Kodiak, but he didn't want to spend the money and and have it not work out.


You know, he's, he's wanting to pick up stuff locally at Home Depot or Lowe's and, you know, just try it out and see whatever.

And so we're talking about that.

And I was complaining to, you know, the materials matter.

If you want the results that you're trying to get, you're not going to get that from Home Depot or Lowe's.

I mean, do your, you know, do your due diligence and go pick up stuff and cast it.


But I'm telling you, when you try these materials, then you're going to see the difference.

But I told him, I said, listen, I'm not talking bad about those companies or the products they make.

There's a place for those things.

But if you want to do high end, and let me put that in in very important parentheses, high end concrete sinks, countertops, furniture, tile, that's what you want to do.


And you want to be at the top of your game and you want to make the best product you can possibly make.

And you don't want to be in your shop for three days doing it when you can do it in one.

You know you want to put tons extra time into polishing.

You just did start to finish in three hours at home.



So if that's what you're interested in, then that's what we offer.

And the reason we offer that is because we do this for a living.

And I told him the difference is experience.

The difference is experience.

Real world experience means everything.


And that's the thing that sets us apart from everybody else in this industry.

And he said, I'm so glad you said that because I got that feeling.

He actually talked to a couple different companies over the last couple weeks and he got the feeling that they didn't really know how to use the products.

And he's like, I'm glad you said that because I I got that that feeling.


I said, yeah, it's just again, I'm not saying that their stuff is bad.

And you and I, we're we're like, we're like beet puppies.

Like we got to say this, we got to say.

Before I say this, I got to start my political correct.

But it's it's true.

I'm not saying what they're making is bad, but it's just it's different.


And the advice you get from those companies is it's free and it's coming from guys who don't do it.

So take it for what it's worth, if you want to build your business on advice taken from some guy that answers the phone, the phone that has never done this and has zero idea what he's doing.


When I was 17 years old, I got hired by this lumber store in Northwest Arkansas called National Lumber.

They're actually owned by Lowe's at the time, but I was still under this this brand called National and I worked in lumber.

I was 17 years old.

I dropped out of high school.

I got my GED I-17.


I'm working at National Hardware making 7 bucks an hour. 17 years old.

Some 4050 year old man come up to me.

Hey young man, I need to attach a deck to my house.

Will this bolt hold it on?

Absolutely, yes it will.

You got the right one.


That's what I've always used, the way I've always done it.

I'm 17, making 7 bucks an hour working in the lumber store and you're going to ask me for advice for something as critical as a deck on your house, you know, So that's what you get when you deal with somebody in those positions.


And so back to the guy that called me, you know, unfortunately he talked to people that have that level of experience.

And if you don't know, you don't know.

Luckily he was picking up just based on the answers he's getting that they didn't, they didn't know and you know, so he he reached out to us.



So to me it's a, it's, it's so encompassing.

I was actually talking to somebody recently that I'm not going to say didn't.

Quite understand what we meant by experience.

But you know, there's lots of ways to look at experience, right?

Well you know such and such degrees or whatever the case may be or you like you said I did it 20 years ago so you can't forget and but experience goes much further than that to me which I have my own analogies based on chemistry that I've probably said many times but in the conversation I was just having with somebody just literally just a few days ago even about the materials.


It's the experience of where you're at and where you're trying to go and which I often have used the the comparison of a, you know a Timex watch to A to a Rolex watch.

But you know if, if you, if any of us and I think we all go on this path, right, this path where you started at something.


You know, the days when you had to build the biggest things in the world, and that's what made you feel like something.

And and then you start getting down this path of quality where you start seeing a choice.

And I remember Jeremy French.

I can't remember who he was making them for.

But see, he was like the big volume guy, right?


He was the guy, as I said before, he was trying to make vanity sinks for, you know, 200 bucks because he's going to make 200 of them or whatever the case may be.

And it was all based on huge volumes.

And as you keep walking this path, you start like, well, wait a minute, man.

No, You know, I want to make this sink and it caters to a clientele that's gonna spend, you know, $2000.


So, you know, for every 100 sinks that he's trying to pop out, man, I'm popping out one.

You know what I mean?

And well how do you achieve that And well Jeremy found you can't just put a bunch of zeros behind you know the one sink that he's selling he needs to scale it up the so.


So our experience goes even further than just the materials.

It's the experience of running these business and what it has taught us you know and and and we're hoping those years of you know let's say choices and challenges that has built wisdom in us that conveys to these people which you know like it or not good or bad, that can't be conveyed by other people.


That's just the way it is And people might be able to I think some people did feel that was a negative at some point and but it's never meant to be a negative.

It's just saying, hey man, when when you follow this path.

And we're very fortunate in my opinion, we're fortunate because it's not just that we can look back on these years and say, how did I evolve this business to find the balance between family and making a living and quality is we've also been, you know, fortunate enough to have our hands in the raw materials along the way too.


So we're not solely dependent on someone else to say, well, hey, I put this product together, OK, well, what does it do?

You know you put water in it and it gets hard.

OK, but I'm trying to achieve this.

Is this gonna be able to achieve this?

It's the same they're.


All the same.

It's all the same, they.

All get to the same place, but why spend the money on that when you can spend half on this?

Yeah, I don't, I don't want all the same, I'm trying to achieve this.

And you know, we can use all kinds of adjectives through that, you know, high quality, high performs.


I mean, I don't care what adjective you come up with, but the fact of the matter is, which what I I don't know where we had on those T-shirts and stickers, call us lazy.

Like, look, man, I want to, I call it value.

So I want to create the most bang for my buck, to create the highest that I can do that caters to the clientele that I need to do that balances my life.


So I'm not in that shop, you know, 100 hours a week anymore.

That's what I'm doing.

Yeah, yeah, I'm so lazy.

I haven't even ordered the stickers or shirts yet.

I'm living.

I'm living the motto right now.


Stay lazy, my friends.

I'm so damn lazy I haven't even done it.

But I have a plan.

I have a vision I wanna do.

I wanna do an illustration of a bear on a floating a pool, drinking like a Margarita with sunglasses on.

And it says stay lazy my friends.

So that's my vision.


I need to hire an illustrator to to illustrate this because I can't draw that good.


Well, that's the experience.

It's experience, but it's also the real world we live.

The life we live the life we.

We didn't at one point live the life we live the life today.

Today I took out the trash.


Today I swept the floor.

Today I washed buckets.

Today I cleaned molds.

Today I ground concrete.

Today I I did all those things today down.

Here, I'm down.

I'm going to be sanding on a vanity.

Yeah, you know, there's a It was in proverb.

Before I was enlightened, I chopped wood and carried water.


After I was enlightened, I chopped wood and carried water.

I love that saying because I the work is the joy.

I enjoy the work.

If I was stuck at a desk answering the phone, or if I ever got away from actually making things, I wouldn't want to do this anymore.


I enjoy the work, you know, For me, the process is what's enjoyable.

What I don't enjoy is tedious, unnecessary work like slurring in pin holes and polishing and slurring in pin holes and polishing.

I despise that, but I do love the process of making something.


So for me that's that's enjoyable.

But you know, to bring this back full circle, the experience is what sets us apart.

There's nobody in this industry, nobody in this industry that does this today for a living and has done it continuously for over 2 decades, that is also selling materials and teaching workshops.


Nobody's doing it but us.

And that's what's different.

And is it better?

Is it worse?

It's different.

It's different, yeah.

That's what I'm really saying.

And that's what sets us apart.


OK, let's see here.

So we did, We did that DIY outdoor kitchen countertops.


And I made that note because I've noticed a lot of videos.

They pop up in my 4U page on Tiktok, Instagram, Facebook, whatever of people doing DIY outdoor concrete countertops for like outdoor kitchen, right?

And I thought that was interesting because that seems to be the project that most people are tackling.


What advice or tips or insights can you offer to somebody that's wanting to do a DIY outdoor kitchen countertop, John?

Hire a professional.


I mean, I, you know, I I know that sounds terrible.

But see then I got to add, my thing is always to start with asking, well, what's your expectation?


What are you looking to achieve?

You know, how do you want this to look?

You know, otherwise, gosh, I guess 'cause you're not gonna mix your own materials.

So you're probably gonna again that you, you're gonna have a mentality of buying the hell, I don't even know how much a bag of basic concrete at the hardware store is anymore.


So I don't know, 5 bucks?

10 bucks?

No, I think it's like 8 to 10 now.

Is it?


See, so I mean, I have no idea.

And so I guess that would be my first to start with.

If you're a DI wire and you have this vision in your head, whatever that vision is, let's start from there and then let's backtrack.


You know based on you know what are you, what are you looking to expend versus what you're going to achieve and find the realities there.

And if your realities is, you know, some glorious picture you saw in, you know, home and garden or something like that, then you know, then your reality is, is, you know, find a professional who knows what they're doing and then ask them if you can be a laborer on the job and and be part of your project.


But if it's so much you're like just die hard.

No, man, I'm going to do this myself.

Gosh, I don't.

I don't know.

Honestly, I don't know.

I guess, you know, take your chances, go pick up your stuff, talk to somebody.


I mean, you're an accountant, so I don't know, call one of your local concrete people, get some tips from them, and then mix your own stuff up in a wheelbarrow.

And good luck to you and I hope it works out.

Yeah, that is that bad advice?




Are amazing.

Well here's my advice.

If I if I were to talk to somebody that's wanting to do it on their their own, my first bit of advice would be do not do cast in place.

I've seen so many videos of these people that have never touched concrete in their life doing cast in place.

Oh, see, I'd be the opposite, but again, right?


That's what I do, so to me it's easier.

Jon, I'm gonna.

I'm gonna kick you right in the Dick.

Let me let me finish my thought here, OK?

OK, so I would tell them do not do cast in place because so many things can go wrong if you don't support it correctly.


You can have blowouts, you can, you know, all kinds of things happen again.

You're saying it's easier?


But if you're not a proficient form builder, you don't understand the pressures that exerted, you don't understand what's going to happen.

I think it's a recipe for disaster #1 #2.

If there is an issue, which it's a 5050 chance, now it's stuck on top of your cabinets that you have built.


A lot of these people are casting around the BBQ grills or whatever, right?

So now it's stuck and now you either got to rip it out and try not to damage the walls and the cabinets and your appliances, or you got to try to rim it in, you know, then you're putting lipstick on a pig.

So my advice, if it were me is I would say do a precast, do it upside down, do it right there in front of the the cabinets.


I'd build my forms, you know, I'd I'd build a a sturdy table, put it on saw horses, a table top and get melamine.

I'd build my forms piece by piece, cast it, do everything and then flip it and then if it's good, set it and do the next piece and do the next piece and just work my way around one piece at a time.


I wouldn't try to do them all at once.

I do it one piece at a time.

And I think if you went that route and you did them upside down, so you're cast on a melamine and if you used a a quality material, maybe you're using Quikrete, you know you're you're going to have to go thicker and you have to put wire reinforcement.


But if you were to order a better material, something that has fiber in it, AR glass fiber in it, plasticizer, I think you're going to have better results that you're going to be happier with.

And then use a quality sealer.

Don't go down to Home Depot or Lowe's and get the Miracle 511 or any of those, you know, get a really quality concrete sealer and use that.


And at the end of the day, I think you'd be fairly happy with the end result.

But if you go to Home Depot or Lowe's, you get quit Crete, you get Miracle 511.

You try to cast in place, you try to try out, but you have 0 experience.

I feel that you're setting yourself up for heartache if you go that route.

That's my opinion.


Yeah, I can see that.

See, I again, I guess I was just like if that's the right you're going to grow the the route you're going to go rather than you know like Wixon up in a wheelbarrow isn't much different than putting in a hole for a post.

So you know 2 by 4 and even if you're not proficient, I mean I I can't think of even the most horrible person can't use a a wood float or something and and make it flat.


Have you seen me try to trial, John?

I cannot trial to save my life.

Really cannot.

I'm horrible at it.

I am horrible at it.

I am definitely the worst person in the world to try to do anything like that.

It's a mess.



All right.

Well then, there you go.

Yeah, there you go.

See, to me, it's the flip side, the the precast.

I look at it like, man, I don't want to lug that stuff around.

I just.

Watch some Don't look.

Cast it right there so you're not, you know, don't.

Don't do it in your garage.

And you have to carry it around your house through the mud and through a fence.

Do it right there.


And I have a couple friends come over and flip it.

And if it's great, great.

And if it's not, then you don't have to get it off.

Do it over.

Yeah, exactly.

I see what you're saying.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.


That's my viewpoint.


It's something else, John, while we're talking, really.

While you were talking, 'cause I zoned out there for a minute and you know, something else that we've discussed that I want to do.


I have a vision of doing it.

We just, we, we keep saying we should do this, but then we don't do anything to make it happen, is I want to do a road tour.

You know, BG and John, maybe I'm getting Nagle.

Nagle just got a RV.

He, he's saying he wants to do a road tour in his RV, which I think would be awesome.


But do a little Rd. tour and do these sporadically.

Let's not try to get the whole United States or half the United States.

Let's just do a section of the US let's let's get venue set up and we can do demo days and the demo days could be at people shops that a want to learn and we can help them.

But also people can come and and meet us see the materials first hand get their hands in it and see if it's something that that they want to use.


So I'm looking at a map right now and the states that I think we should hit first because it's local to me.

You could fly here and then we could, we could just jump in my truck, let's say Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri.


So that essentially would go straight up over, straight down.

And then, you know, we just kind of do a circle.

So Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri.

If you're in any of those States and you have a shop and you would be open to having us come to your shop and do a demo day, reach out to me or reach out to John and let us know and we'll start compiling a list.


And once we get the list and it works, then we can set dates and we can announce those dates.

And then anybody that's interested can come and get their hands in the mix and we can answer questions and we can just meet face to face and you can see who we are and see that I'm not Satan and John's not Satan and you know, actually pretty decent guys.

And yeah, and I'm actually.


We're the opposite.

Far more handsome than you.



Realize he really is Satan.

Well, wasn't Satan the most beautiful Angel?

If that if that is the case, then I could be Satan.

There you go.

There you go.

It could be true, the rumors.


Does Satan have blue eyes?

Do you have pretty blue eyes?

'Cause I don't, do you?

Dude, I am pretty.

Yeah, I'm pretty.

I I have beautiful legs, dude.

I got these.

I got these short shorts I wear all summer.

They're swimsuits.

I picked them up at Walmart like 7 bucks a pair a few years ago.


You get complimented all the time.

Dude, I'm in.

I'm in Chipotle.

There'll be a dude behind me.

Hey bro, nice legs.

I'm like, yeah, thanks.

And then, you know, some old lady walked in to get plastic to say he's like, I love your shorts.

I'm like, I bet you do.

Every place I go, dude, people tell me how great these shorts are.


You want to touch them?

But yeah, so let me see, let me pull back up my list here 'cause I was looking on the map.

So that was that.

The last thing I want to hit John is we have several workshops coming up.

The first being the Concrete Heroes Quest which we previously discussed May 1st through 3rd Napa CA Advanced Mold Making Ramcrete.


It is going to be a fun class.

If you want to learn more register go to

The next one is going to be a fabric forming concrete sink and GFRC workshop June 21st through 23rd here in Goddard, KS had several people registered this week for that class.

It's going to be a great class.


I'm looking forward to it.

The next workshop, Furniture Design workshop August 16th through 18th again here in Goddard, KS.

This is going to be an exploratory workshop where we talk about design, the fundamentals of design, what goes into making a piece and you're going to make your own little piece of furniture.

So if you're interested in that concrete and the last workshop we have scheduled for Concrete Design School.


At the moment I I'm thinking about maybe doing one or two more.

We'll see is going to be the Basics workshop, our fundamental concrete workshop September 28th and 29th Goddard, KS.

That's going to be the initial first step.

If you're interested in concrete but you don't want to go all in, come to that workshop.


It's going to be a really good one.

So that's everything.

Workshop related.

John, do you have anything you want to discuss on workshops?

No, nothing on workshops, I mean excited two weeks away from Napa.

So I'm really excited about that.

I did want to talk about something real quick just kind of I don't know industry related, niche industry related and I just heard about this, but so Caleb Lawson has parted ways with the Concrete Countertop Institute.


So I just want to, you know, we wish Caleb the very best in what he's doing and you know, hope Caleb Lawson designs continues to flourish for him.



All right.



Well, anything else that we have?


No, that's it, man.

I got to get to work too.

I got to get back here and start, yeah.

I need to head down.

I got to hit the shop for a couple 3 hours.

Today's today's trap practice.

So yeah, we got a this afternoon's always short where I go pick him up and we got to run out to the to the gun range and practice.


I could go into that whole thing too.

I mean he's he's trying a whole new technique, so I'm I'm excited to see where he goes with it.


All right, John.

Well, that's the podcast for this week.

Let's do it again next week.


And then we'll be in Napa after that.

So maybe, absolutely, maybe we'll do another podcast in Napa.

We did that once before.

That was a lot of fun.

Maybe we won't.

There's always, like, so much going on that it's hard to to sit down and do it.

But maybe, maybe not.

But anyhow, until next week.

John Schuler.


Adios, amigo.



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