Concrete Countertops Uncovered: How to Clean, Price, and Perfect Your Craft

In this episode, we dive deep into the world of concrete countertops, tackling some of the burning questions that many enthusiasts have. From the best cleaning methods to determining the right price for your masterpiece, we leave no stone unturned. But beware the red herring of obsessing over the price per bag of concrete mix – it's a distraction from the real conversation. And as we wrap up, we unveil insider tips and tricks for flawlessly pouring Self-Consolidating Concrete (SCC) into molds, ensuring your creations are nothing short of perfection. Join us on this concrete adventure as we carve out a path to concrete excellence.

 

TRANSCRIPT:

 

0:15

Hello, Jon Schuler.

Hello, Brandon Gore, How many times are we going?

To do this until we get it right, Yeah.

I mean, so far we've talked about getting blood drawn.

We've talked about taxes.

0:31

None of none of these things are good ways.

That's a horrible one, I know.

But we don't want to open a podcast with any of that stuff.

We got to start this off in a better way.

Can't be negative, can't be negative.

Got to be positive.

I know.

Got to be positive.

Got to be positive.

Oh, positive.

0:46

What's positive?

Well, I've been learning Fusion 360.

If you listened to the past podcast, you know it's something I'm trying to learn.

So I've been learning that, getting better at it.

Still don't have it figured out.

But you know, every day I get a little bit better than I was yesterday.

So there's that.

What else?

Cool.

Yeah.

1:02

No, I'm with you.

I need to learn something like that.

I started SketchUp some time ago, but maybe, yeah, I need to sit down and do fusion as well as you guys talking about using, you know, the 3D printers and all that kind of jazz.

I mean, that is so cool to incorporate into the business model.

1:21

Seriously.

Absolutely.

Somebody hit me up via e-mail that they bought a house with concrete countertops.

I don't know what company made the countertops.

I don't know what they used to seal the countertops, but they're asking, they purchased a house, what do I use to clean the countertops?

1:41

And I, I kind of forget like that's a super common question for people.

How do you clean concrete countertops?

And it's something we take for granted because we've been, you know, doing it for so long.

But somebody new to the industry or we probably have listeners that don't actually make concrete, but they're interested in concrete, What do you use to clean concrete countertops, concrete sinks?

2:03

What would you recommend, Jon?

Soap and water is usually the first go to otherwise, like in my own house.

Like no, that's.

I mean we mostly just alight soap and water or we use the Windex with vinegar 99% of the time.

2:21

Is sealer part of the equation of what to clean with?

Because there's some sealers that vinegar is very detrimental to harsh too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I could be.

Then I I think typically the go to is always you know some amount of soap and water and very, very light abrasion that's all like you know, maybe hand a client or they go pick up a white Scotch brite pad or or maybe the backside of like what are those whites?

2:51

And I think they're all called Scotchbrite, the little blue sponges that you can buy at the grocery store kind of thing.

But that would be as aggressive as I would ever tell somebody to get.

But simple green things like that, Something that's not going to attack the sealer because you don't know what the sealer is.

3:12

Fluorox Multi cleaner.

That's a good one, Yep.

For those people who are trying to go, you know, with the antibacterial kind of stuff.

Yeah, yeah, The Clorox wipes, yeah.

But none of those are harsh.

Yeah, none of those are harsh.

You know you want to avoid comets and you know your tough bathroom cleaners and certainly not ACLR and some of those kind of products.

3:39

Good point.

It's Jon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But no, I I'm getting in my own kitchen.

Most of the time it's just wiping down.

What would you not recommend?

You're talking about like common stuff, but like what if you got paint on it?

Can you take acetone to the sealer to get the paint off?

No, I wouldn't.

3:55

I mean, if the worst guy would probably do is grab a little razor blade and get under the paint unless it was really splattered.

But no, I I I really avoid solvents.

I guess what you could do, probably one of your milder solvents would be the isopropyl.

4:13

Rubbing alcohol.

But yeah, but most of your even your paints are going to be, you know, acrylic based.

So even with them, water and very light.

Again, very light.

Scotch brite a blue, a white, something like that, you're going to pull it off.

4:31

I'm not a fan of doing the solvents because again, regardless of what sealer you start bringing acetones, me, KS or you know any of these kind of mineral spirits, any of that stuff in without knowing the exact sealer that was going to be used and you're going to break down any kind of acrylics or urethanes, you know, just depending on what that particular product was put together to hold up against.

5:01

So that's that's a little more of a crapshoot in my opinion.

Yeah, let's say somebody used ICT to seal.

What would be the recommended cleaner for that?

Well, we've kind of got a different direction.

I don't know if it's necessarily a cleaner, but we've talked about some of the ceramics, like the Sprayable ceramics.

5:22

That's more of a maintenance product than a cleaner.

Yeah.

But again, maintenance and cleaning, yeah, believe it or not that's that's why they like again I'm thinking about that that car Pro 2 point O you know that has a little surfactant technology built into it so as so that it does pick up things and that's kind of the idea, right.

5:41

I mean even though they want you to again going back to the car wash, the car you are still going to have some amount of you know whatever you know bird poop or you know bug gooze or something.

Then it's continued to clean and do its job.

But as again I I'm one that's just what can you get at the grocery store.

6:01

Any of your multi purpose cleaners work just fine and that could be a Clorox base, Windex base, Lysol based, any of those kind of things and and then just non abrasive, all of those work very nicely.

6:17

Yeah, I'm to the point now where I don't even care what I clean with, honestly.

I just reach up underneath the sink.

I grabbed fantastic.

I grabbed 409, I grabbed Windex, Lysol, wipes, whatever.

And I just use whatever.

6:32

I pull out.

It's fine.

Like I don't.

I don't sweat it way, way, way, way, way back in the day.

This is probably 2008.

I want to say 2007.

Maybe we had a miscast in my shop.

6:48

We cast a island piece and it was whatever the wrong size, wrong color, I can't remember.

So we had to recast it.

And my employee took that piece home with him and I didn't even know he took it.

I thought we threw it away and when he was moving I went to go help him move.

7:04

When I went over to his, his apartment that he lived at, he had taken that concrete piece and put it on the island.

It fit on the island that he had in his apartment and it looked phenomenal.

I'm like, dude, what, what do you seal this with?

He's like, I didn't seal it.

I didn't, I didn't seal with anything.

7:20

I was like, Fraley, what do you clean it with?

He's like Windex, Clorox, whatever.

I don't care.

Because back then, you know, back then we were using a topical and we were very, very, very specific about what to use.

You know, I think it was like Meyer's countertop cleaner or something.

Something that would not do any damage to the sealer is what we recommended.

7:40

And the fact that he was just using whatever chemicals on unsealed concrete.

But it looked awesome.

Now it's one of those things that I'm sure didn't look awesome.

For the first two or three months that he had, it probably looked pretty bad because he had one stain and another stain, another stain, but at some point it had stained evenly, You know, the whole surface had become just evenly stained and it didn't look like a stain anymore and it just looked like this like really cool surface.

8:05

So anyways, my point is way back then I was totally blown away that he would just use whatever to clean it because that was totally the anti of what we'd always done.

But now I'm I'm at that point now with ICT is I just, I clean it with whatever I clean with whatever.

8:21

Now that being said I know my wife has used nail Polish remover to get nail Polish off the countertops and it did create a dull spot on the surface which I haven't, I haven't done anything about yet.

I need to how would somebody.

So let's say that happens.

How would somebody go about resolving that?

8:37

So if if somebody took nail Polish remover which is acetone and scrubbed the surface and created a dull spot on the surface, how would you remedy that?

Oh well, first of all, it it depending on where you're at the new single component, that doesn't happen to you.

But prior to yeah, it definitely would soften.

8:53

It was an interesting reaction that happened there.

What I won't get into, but how do you fix it?

I just use the miracle.

Oh no.

What the hell is that?

The magic?

Erasers.

Magic Eraser.

Yeah, Magic Eraser.

And you've told me this.

I don't understand how Magic Eraser is going to do anything.

9:11

Because it's slightly abrasive and So what basically you're doing is you're buffing it a little bit, even if you put like a a little lubrication with a little water.

You know what I mean?

And and I mean, I don't even know, it's probably like 1000 grit or less, the Magic Eraser, but that's what it is, it's it's a very, very mild abrasive.

9:29

Do I need to reapply sealer to the surface?

Only if you get real crazy with it and like, I don't know, just like if you let's say you were using 1000 grit sanding paper.

If you sanded with that thousand grit so hard that you remove some, then yes, yeah, I would reapply a little sealer and then feather it out.

9:48

Now just reapply the whole thing.

Oh, you certainly could.

I mean at this point I would only because, well what you have, I would use the updated protect single formula, yeah.

And then that's going to react and then put reactivate and put better protection with any of the sealer that you had on there previously.

10:12

Yeah, I'll do that.

Yeah, she did that right when I installed the countertops.

So the IT was the older version of ICT but it only been sealed for two weeks I think if even.

And I put them in and the girl spilled nail Polish on it and she got nail Polish remover and removed it and it left a a dull hazy spot in that one spot.

10:32

So.

Yeah, right on.

Well, at this point, if it's been that long, you may just.

Again, not even Magic Eraser.

I don't know if you have a little buffered pad.

Just lightly buff, zip, zip, zip.

And because I doubt if it removed anything, it just softened it into a dull.

So a little buff, buff, buff and pop it right back to the Sheen of everything else.

10:53

Yeah, I'll try that.

We'll see.

What do you want to talk about, Jon?

What's on your mind?

Oh, there's always stuff on my mind.

But you know what I think I told you was?

I'll bring it up again.

There's been some questions again where people want are trying to compare product.

11:17

They're not necessarily comparing performance, just product and and you know people using pre blended mixes and if I'm using this particular product you know what are the advantages of this product and so on One of the forum pages there was a person who asked a very similar question and I've completely avoided it.

11:38

So it's it's been interesting to say the least to see just kind of like what the feedback is from anybody who's answered so far.

So that's that's something on my mind.

11:54

Well, I am no longer on many of these pages, which I'm telling you, it's nice.

It's nice.

It's nice not to.

It's nice not to see these types of.

Feel like you're being assaulted, Not.

Even I I just, I I like lack of stress, out of sight, out of mind.

12:11

Ignorance is bliss.

Like I like it, I don't mind it.

So for me it's been, it's been nice not seeing this stuff but you told me about this and it reminded me my my buddy went to world of Concrete this year and I had him just.

I said go around, go to this manufacturer, you know, or this distributor, whoever that sells concrete Mix, pre blended mix and just ask him how does this compare to Kodiak?

12:36

And he did.

And the response he got from all of them is they're all the same.

They do the same thing, this that there's a good product, Ours is a good product.

Ultimately they do the same thing.

And that was what that was, the narrative that he was sold by all of them.

And it doesn't surprise me because if you're somebody making or selling a product and there's a new innovative product that comes on the market, you want to create the narrative in everybody's minds or the thought that they're all the same.

13:03

You know, that one might be a little better at doing this, but essentially it's the same and you know that term better that Kodiak is better than this one.

That's that's completely incorrect.

It's not that it's better.

It's completely different.

13:19

It's not even completely.

You can't say that this product was improved upon slightly by using a slightly different PUZZLIN or a slightly different polymer.

You know, whatever that would be quote UN quote better You're making an improvement.

But if you come out with something completely new, all new technology, all new thoughts behind the materials, then it's not better, it's completely different And you can't even compare those two two things.

13:44

And we're guilty of this to some extent because in the past and we just did on the last podcast, we did price comparisons.

And you know, because this is a question we get, it happens probably between three and five times a week.

Either you or I get contacted by somebody wanting to know how does a price compare and it's natural.

14:03

I get it.

You know, we're all very price conscientious and price aware, especially with the way the economy is.

But the other part of it is other product sellers out there that is the selling point they try to sell.

So they'll tell people, well also you know our products, you know, a dollar cheaper, a square foot and they sell price, that's what they're selling.

14:24

They're using the Walmart model, Let's sell price.

Price is our selling point.

And because of that, that's what a lot of the consumers will focus on is the price because that's the, that's the point that's being sold.

And so they contact us and they say, hey, I'm interested in Houston Kodiak, you know, how's it comparing price because this is the conversation that they've had with the other materials out there.

14:44

It's really an incorrect conversation and misses the bigger picture entirely.

And you know, you've shared with me some of the responses on that post, but the responses have largely been like the cost.

You know, if it cost me 30 more dollars to make a project, that doesn't mean anything to me.

15:02

If the product that I make is far better and I have far less time into it, that $30 is completely insignificant.

So focusing on what the price of the bag is to that over there is like comparing.

You know, we always talk about Festool because Festool's kind of the top of of what they do.

15:21

But you know, you're like, well, you know Ryobi and and Festool, they're the same thing.

No, they're not.

They're not even close to the same thing.

And people that actually are like very, very high level woodworkers know the difference.

And so to say, you know, I'm sure Ryobi at a trade show be like, Oh yeah, yeah, Festool's good, we're good.

15:39

They all cut wood.

We're all the same thing.

You're like, no one of these over here will save you a tremendous amount of time, yield a far better end product in the end, make you more money, and it gets you the projects that you need because you're able to deliver the work that the client's expecting that you can't do with this over here.

15:58

But that's not that's not the bill of goods being sold to the consumer from the companies that want to muddy the waters and say they're all the same.

Well, if it's not the company's, so I was going to read a few of these and and anybody listening.

So to me it's just interesting.

16:14

I use the word interesting a lot because the question came up like, you know, I'm using this premix it seems, you know, it seems to be working.

I started using it before the Kodiak materials came out.

16:29

So he's looking for input with people who are using the Kodiak and just say, hey, is this difference in price worth it.

And yeah, so I I just found it interesting that to begin with some of the feedback coming just happened to be one of the salesman from the company was all based on cost cost cost cost like you know, hey, you know.

16:52

So if this is only just just keep using it.

Even had another person came back again from the same company, like, well, hey, you, you know, get a hold of us and, you know, basically I'm paraphrasing, we can find ways of working with you and saving you money.

17:09

And I just thought like, wow, that's, I don't know, that's weird to me because anybody who's been doing this long enough, at the end of the day, now again, maybe it's us as the problem.

Because I always equate this into a project, right.

17:26

I think about the last project I just did.

It literally used 6 bags, right?

6 bags, 650 LB bags.

And so if you told me that like hell.

Well hey man, thanks a lot and thanks for working with me.

And I saved another 2 bucks a bag.

17:44

I don't know, was that $12.00?

You know what I mean?

I just like there's so much of this picture, this completely irrelevantly overlooked when the focus by somebody is like, I can get it to you a buck. 2 bucks, even $3 a bag, $5 a bag, whatever.

18:07

I mean, with that, $30 really made the difference in my, you know, $3200 vanity.

My answer's no.

My answer's no.

But those are just interesting to me.

And when I say interesting, it's a matter of perspective, right?

18:22

So if you and me were salesman, you know again working for what other company and that's what we do.

We travel around and we do sales and well that is you know that's our focus, right.

Our focus is dollars and cents.

We don't use the materials.

18:39

We're not living that lifestyle.

We don't understand it, but we do understand dollars and cents.

So I found that one pretty interesting.

Another interesting I found is there was quite a few comments coming from people who have moved to these materials, and legitimately each one of those had things to say like this.

19:02

We have nearly completely rid our shop of the slurring process.

You know, hands down, the best mix I've ever used.

Well.

So you know, I've used these other materials, you know, the tech support and everything was great with them.

19:18

Now I only use Kodiak products because they nailed it, you don't think and these kind of comments, it might be what it is, but they get completely overlooked.

The ones that are actually getting, you know, marks of of likes and and almost, you know, thanks for saying something is any of the ones that like here's a comment, oh, it's worth considering that there, you know there's other products out there that can do the same thing.

19:45

This is what I use.

In fact, somebody else uses this and they're all excellent.

Well, are they?

This goes back to where they try to muddy the water.

They're all the same thing.

That's the narrative that people want to sell.

I get it.

You want to muddy the waters.

20:02

You want to confuse the consumer and make them think that it's all the same.

Because if it's all the same, then the only thing that matters is price.

At the at the moment that everything is equal, that that product over there delivers the same results of these products deliver, then price becomes the selling point.

20:18

But if that's not true, if this other product over here delivers.

Far denser surfaces, no pinners, no air holes, richer colour.

You're able to do really tall verticals without air being trapped all the way up the side.

20:33

You're able to do the things you can never do before.

If that material does that but that one doesn't, well, all of a sudden price becomes a non issue because now you're able to do the things you need to do and run your business in a way that's profitable in the the $2.00.

A bag difference is completely insignificant and irrelevant, but if they're all the same then it is important.

20:53

So that's I get why other there has to be.

Common now and there.

There's the part that I find so difficult with this, And again, I realize anybody can roll their eyes.

And I have my own reasons for why I use these materials, which I got no problem going into for people.

21:09

But when when these kind of comparisons come up, it's legitimately, legitimately, these materials are an entirely not even a different animal.

They're they're a completely different species compared to what the other materials are.

21:29

And I know that's sometimes hard for people to figure out or think about, maybe not figure out, but think about like how can it be so different if it has cement in it and sand in it and you know, don't these other things have cement and sand in it.

And and the only thing you guys talk about is it doesn't have polymer.

21:45

And OK, so we know all these other products, they have polymer in there.

But no, there's there's so much more to this, which it's funny that we're having this conversation because I did actually get a text from somebody who who just like now I'm trying to say legitimately is asking questions, but you know, if they're, I'm just reading them.

22:10

If there isn't some black magic potion in there that essentially does the job of a polymer without being a polymer, my genuine curiosity is being 100% straight with you.

You know, like, what are you guys doing?

22:27

Of course you want to know.

Of course you want to know.

I'm not telling you and Jon.

I'm telling you.

Stop texting these dummies.

They keep texting you these things 'cause they're trying to farm you for information, do not respond to their text.

I'm not giving up any IP.

That in of itself, to me, is what shows because you.

22:47

Know what that shows me?

You know what that shows me, Jon?

We're on a different path.

They think they're smarter than you.

They're trying to pull the Huck Finn.

Hey man, painting this fence is fun.

You want to come paint the fence while they sit back and shade tree and watch you paint the fence?

Jon, if there's not something in there, I'm just really confused.

23:03

How can it be?

Can you tell me?

Well, oh, yeah.

Let me, let me lay it off for you.

Let me lay out my intellectual property for this innovative product that has never existed in the history of man, that does things no other products can do.

Let me let me tell you how that.

Let me tell you how that happens.

23:19

Yeah, why not?

No, it's.

Just interesting because again as we're following this path and this person again I got no issues you know, fairly well researched, knowledgeable, I got no issues with any of that.

But the fact that the way that even being asked, so the thought process is there, there must be one one magic something replacing something else, you know what I mean?

23:43

Like, well, if you're not using Polymer, again, assuming that's a single raw ingredient, then you must be using this.

Yeah, that's that's a very closed off way of thinking.

That's a that's a way of thinking that you that that product is so, so necessary that to remove it means you have to replace it with something else.

24:02

When no, you can come up with a completely new concept and thought process of how these materials work and that's what and it's the competitors miss is they think about it in this very closed box very small way of thinking they don't have they don't have the capacity for creative thought outside of that box because they're.

24:24

Yeah, they're still thinking in the concrete world, you know what I mean?

The concrete admixture world and and this and that.

And no, the innovations in these products.

And I know we've been talking about this for a minute, so we'll move on pretty quick.

The, the innovations in these products have come, they come so far outside and that's what I said.

24:45

A A big part of that is, I'm gonna say fortunately for me, because of my background, I've never approached this from the again, let's let's say the path of those people who've come down this path and there's in a in a bit of, I'm not going to say an unwillingness, but like all of us in an industry, when you've worked in that industry long enough, your thought process kind of aligns down your knowledge base of that industry.

25:14

And I look at it like a path.

So where my path has been, it's just it's so broad and open.

It's not one little line.

You know what I mean?

It's not blazing a trail.

It's huge.

So that's what's interesting and and I'll probably end up putting a comment on here because I'm gonna say even the realities, the reality is these materials are a completely different thing.

25:42

They're totally different.

Yes, they have cement, yes they will get hard, but they are completely outside the boundaries.

And because of that which I'm willing to say if a person is let's say using a certain product, let's say I don't know an SCC pre blended mix from somebody else.

26:02

And then they pick up these materials and the expectation of these materials are to be similar but maybe slightly better or maybe slightly worse than this other material pre blended SCCC material.

Then I think that's where somebody can get in trouble and I just would say like no, not so much like in other words, maybe these weren't won't be better for you, you know because for me I think a lot depends on and then I'll go into my own thing here in a second.

26:33

What are you expecting?

I mean, what are you trying to achieve really, Per the one comment, right?

Per the one comment, like there's plenty of things that you can make into an SCC and that's true.

That's absolutely true.

I got no issues with that.

26:50

If that's your only criteria is to get a a version of an SCC mix.

There's lots of ways to achieve that, but now I'll go to me some of my problems with other mixes in my shop, because that's really what it's about, right?

I'm not trying to sell you another pin and try to explain you the benefits of this pin.

27:10

The idea was why are you looking for another pin?

And then maybe I have something that fits your needs.

And for me a lot of my upright casting, working with polymers was difficult.

They'd make the mixes sticky and Jelly like and you know they wouldn't flow.

27:27

And so you may have to spritz and and find other methods versus having something that was easy to screed, create finishes, non sticky, you know, etcetera etcetera.

And I could go on and on.

So that was a fight that I had fought for a very long time.

27:45

And then the realization by, well, dude, how about just get out what's sticky, You know what I mean?

Like, OK, yeah, hey, that's a good idea.

All right.

Wow, look at this.

And anybody who's ever finished an industrial concrete versus like, again, a polymer modified concrete, they know exactly what I'm talking about.

28:04

Then to the next level, I mean, you go on one of the things we've always fought color, you know, richness of color.

That's a no brainer.

And so there was a, you know, a necessity if you will to have some kind of solvent based something to get some kind of brightness or richness out of the color.

28:25

And so to me that was always a fight and I didn't like it.

And it created a what's a phonus, I guess a phonus to my material sometimes that I was selling to people knowing full well that that enrichment wasn't going to last it.

28:40

You know, it basically started the timer right there.

And when it would have, you know, slowly dull, bake, dull back out based on the solvent, based, whatever that I used.

So these were the problems, just a couple of them that in fact here I'll go into one you can stop me anytime.

28:58

Someone put a very nice post, kind of.

What I'm talking about is like he was.

Not venting, but.

Giving his laundry list of issues that he had has dealt with over the years using some of these other materials, which again, by the way, got no likes, no nothing.

29:17

But you know, people read them.

It's funny, here were some of the problems that he had been trying to do that curling.

Years and years and years of having curling issues.

His grouting issues, which all of us was talked about in nauseam, right?

Meaning the pin holes, the voids, all those kind of things.

29:34

Shrinkage, cleaning.

And when he says cleaning, he's talking about like cleaning your buckets, cleaning the mixers.

Things that you and I now take for granted again, right?

Like you're talking about spraying out your barrel mixer takes you 2 seconds.

But back when we were using other materials, No man, I you had to get in there and scrub and clean and acid washing.

29:54

Acid washing has become so much more, let's say reproducible and even in your finish.

No more of the real hot spots and stuff going on chipping.

You know, chipping with a lot.

Of materials has been a real problem.

30:10

In fact, I won't use his name, but that was one of the calls I told you about where a guy literally lost in a small claims court where the judge sided with the clients because the countertops chipped based on the material.

30:28

So they called it the defective.

And even though he let's say from his point of view had an ironclad contract that the clients had signed about these quote UN quote concrete materials when they took it to court the they sided with the with these people and and he had to pay us.

30:46

So yeah so he's moving materials he's he's moving away from a mix that has the ability to chip.

So where am I going with it Just from where we started these materials good or bad right or wrong it doesn't matter.

31:02

Have coming at this from an entirely different point of view and they are entirely different than anything.

So it's it's really hard to make the comparison and based on that I would just tell anybody that whatever your issue might be little, big or small, well pick some of this up and see if it solves and or quite frankly talk to us.

31:26

I got no problem being straight with people and saying yeah, I know dude, this probably won't be any better for you if that's what you're trying to solve.

I mean, I mean what's your thoughts Brandon?

Well, I agree.

I agree 1000% about how the materials solve a problem.

31:44

For me, the problem has always been air.

Air has always been the issue.

I cast SCC, I direct cast, which I've been doing now for 14 years I think 2012 when I stopped spraying face codes.

So I direct cast SCCGFRC and for a long, long time I struggled with just the moon crater effect.

32:06

You know, the fissures that went up the side, the millions of air pockets on any vertical surface.

And to mitigate that, I came up with these very complex ways of casting injection, pumping concrete in, forcing it into the mold, pumping it to the lowest spot, doing all these things, rotating forms, having air sprues, let air get out.

32:27

I came up with all these very, very Rube Goldberg techniques to just try to minimize the air because in my opinion, the material was the material, the material at that point, and it was at that point as good as it got, this was as good as it got.

So you have to come up with ways to make it work for what you're doing.

32:46

But this new generation of materials, which are completely night and day different from anything I've reused in the past and I've used all the mixes.

Solved all those.

Problems.

So I don't have those problems anymore.

I don't have the moon craters.

33:02

The fissures run up the edges.

I don't have to go through all these complex stand in my head, tilt the form, pour it right here, pump it right there, let the air out over here, rotate it, vibrate it.

I don't have to do this whole song and dance to to mitigate the air that was in the mix.

And so if somebody said to me, but hey young man, I can save you $2 a bag if you switched to my materials, bro, save your two bucks, save your $2.00 because that's not worth it.

33:28

The problems I had and the problem this solves are worth 1000 times more than that 2 bucks, you know.

So I I would say, you know, that's for my from my viewpoint, that's the picture that people miss.

But they don't miss it because they're stupid.

33:45

They miss it because the other material suppliers out there are wanting to cultivate the narrative that they're all the same, that there's, you know, slightly slight differences.

But, you know, at the end of the day, they're a good product.

We're a good product.

They get hard, we get hard.

34:00

We all, it's all the same thing, you know, That's all the same thing.

Of course you want to say that.

Of course you want to say that.

But as as the actual buyers, the the makers in this industry, the artisans, you have to educate yourself.

34:16

You have to get away from the narrative that's being spun and you, you have to have a frame of reference, which is what you're talking about.

You need to call Joe Bates, Eric Nagle, I think Eric Nagle might be selling on the East Coast to people.

But get a hold of one of these guys and get a a small quantity to do your own testing, and from there you'll have a frame of reference and then you'll know the difference.

34:37

And then all the chatter from the material suppliers out there, it won't mean anything because you'll know what you know at that point.

You'll know it for yourself.

And that narrative is irrelevant.

Well, and the same I I.

Would say anybody reach out to either one of us reach out?

Well, mainly.

34:52

I don't like talking, but they can call you.

You have to talk.

I have No.

Issues with it because on the flip side.

I just look at all that like.

I have no problem being totally straight with people meaning like.

I'll tell you the.

35:10

Right.

This is the downside of Jon.

I'm too familiar with them.

I'll tell you the goods and the bads.

I'll tell you know, walk me through what you're trying to achieve and then I got no problem letting you know if this material will help you achieve that in a.

And again, I'm not going to use the word better.

35:26

What I'm going to say is in a different way, in a different way, And with that, if those modifications get you where at least closer to where you were hoping to be as an example, right, Phil Courtney, just cast that look like, I don't know, I'm going to call it a reception desk.

35:46

Do you even know what that was?

I have no idea.

OK, so.

I'm going to call it a reception desk.

Is is big three-dimensional form and very tall verticals with look like a knockout.

Well, not really knocking a recess in the front like a front panel kind of thing.

36:02

Super, super cool.

And I mean he's pouring this in at least what appeared to be almost, oh, reception desk, well that'd be like 33 inch verticals, you know, three quarter inch three, you know, 33 inch verticals with the recesses and this kind of three-dimensional cast.

36:20

And I mean, that's to have the ability now to cast stuff like that without coming out with.

You know, Major.

Voids and consolidation problems.

And I mean that's that's just a that's an entirely new world that none of us were in three years ago.

36:42

And that's why to me.

This is totally different.

So if someone said like, hey, Jon, I want to do the same thing, but I want all these voids, I'd be like, yeah, no, then this wouldn't be the material for you.

Yeah.

And that's OK.

Yeah.

Then here you, you know go back to this you know take like AV cast kind of mix and put some polymer in there and whip it up.

37:02

And I mean there's there's other ways to achieve if if those were kind of the looks or or let's say end results you were looking for.

So yeah I I got no problem being straight with people yeah.

I mean, you see what people are pulling off today that you know, jokingly a few podcasts back being is too damn lazy for what they're creating.

37:27

And and in a way, yeah, it absolutely is.

You know, hey, speaking.

Of Too damn lazy.

Speaking of too damn lazy, I've gotten a lot of messages from people wanting to know if we ordered shirts, yet we ordered stickers.

37:43

I'm working on it.

I haven't done it yet.

I've been working on it.

But I need to.

But you and I came up with an idea.

The way to get one of these shirts.

The Too damn lazy shirt is to share your experience with Kodiak Pro and how that's made you a lazier artisan, right?

38:03

So share a social media post where you know you tag us so we know we know that you shared it, so we see it.

But share social media posts on Instagram and Facebook, sharing your experience of how this has made you lazy and you know, lazy and sense of that you're not working near as hard.

38:21

You're not at your shop near as much and and then I'll reach out to you and we'll we'll get a shirt in the middle to you.

How's that sound?

Right.

Because there's the.

Other part I didn't touch on, you know, for me and again, solely me.

Which I'll say again roll your eyes.

You're only saying this, Jon, because you know he put the materials together Well, no even the the last project, man, I ended up going late.

38:44

Take my son to school.

He's learning to drive.

He just turned 16 and so I got to the shop late so that he could drive in the morning.

I'm there.

I fire up.

The mix was finished, let's say 9930, and I'm, you know, again upright cast one of my totally different finishes that people like.

39:06

Boom, boom, boom, boom, cover up.

And I'm walking out of that shop by 12:30 because it also happens to be a day, my wife's day off, so that we could go to lunch together, you know what I mean?

And then we go to the grocery store together.

And I'm just thinking like, this is the kind of lifestyle I'm in right now.

39:25

And a big part of all of this is the materials that I'm using.

And that to.

Me again.

Although, yeah, you know, I could pump the whole Kodiako.

No, kinda.

But no, that's what makes these it's a completely different category other than it has a cement in it.

39:44

Yes, it's got some sand in it, but everything beyond that is is I can't even say night and day.

They're just it's in a in a totally different realm and with that if someone you need to find out if being in that realm.

40:01

Benefits you in the way that we're looking for the benefits, I mean, because you'll certainly get those benefits, but maybe those aren't the benefits you're looking for, you know what I mean?

Well, and maybe you're not even.

Aware that there are benefits.

You you told me about a comment that somebody made on that post about where they said if it's not broke, don't fix it.

40:18

But if you don't know that it's broke, a lot of times you don't know it's broke.

So you don't know that needs to be fixed.

You don't have a frame of reference 'cause it's what you got used to.

You know now you've gotten used to whatever you're doing, and so that seems like it's working.

However, that means for you.

40:35

And yeah, yeah, but you don't know what.

You don't know and I was in that group for a long time.

I was using a product that you developed with a a company you used to to be associated with and at the time at that point in history that was as good as it got.

40:55

And so you're like, yeah, OK.

But at the point that there is a an innovation in the market and there is something that is night and day different, you're doing yourself a disservice by not actually having a frame of reference, not just listening.

41:12

I I would say completely shut off listening to anything from from anybody.

Just find out for yourself.

Have a frame of reference, and then you can decide if it's worth fixing what's broke, because at that point you understand what's broke up until then, you don't know.

You don't know.

It just is what it is.

41:28

And so you have to have frame of reference.

We can, we can, we can beat this forever, but let's move on.

The next I'm going to go just a.

Little further so some of the frames of references hang on.

I love UHPCSI love their.

And again, not the strength, the densities and this and that and what the, I'm going to say, major, major hurdle for me from not getting deep into UHPCS is the difficulty mixing.

41:52

So you know again some people on this thread wanted to compare UHPC to UHPC but again it's it's not a comparison because you know couldn't use something.

Yeah I talk about my XO 6 which by the way I'm sending out today to go get repaired that that a hand mixers just you beat yourself up you could not mix them to get the benefits out of that kind that end of densities and so forth.

42:20

So I mean these are all the things that have to led to these innovations moving in an entirely different direction.

So the other.

Question that I've been fielding from some from some makers new to the industry but I think it's a a good conversation that we periodically have is what do concrete countertops cost?

42:44

What should I be charging?

You know there's a Facebook group it's not for our industry it's for guys doing flat work.

But I, I they should just change a name to what should I charge because literally every single post in that group and there's 20 a day is hey guys, I'm doing this whatever, just driveway and it has a curve and a stamp, blah blah, blah.

43:03

What should I charge?

Every single post is what should I charge.

But I get it because if you're new to something, you have no idea where to start.

And so that's the questions I've received from people that are newer to this industry and they don't know where they should be price wise for countertops, where what what they should be charging.

43:21

You know it's different.

The short answer is there is no right answer because everybody's expenses are different.

Everybody's location is different.

Your cost to to live where you live.

You know, somebody living in Hawaii is going to have a much different cost of operating a business and just maintaining a normal lifestyle versus somebody in the middle of Iowa.

43:43

You know, I mean, it's just two totally different things.

And the guy in Iowa can charge this and be profitable and and you know, make a decent living that the guy in Hawaii can never do.

He wouldn't make it a week at that price point.

So you have to take that into account.

But that being said, this is just my own personal opinion.

44:01

But for countertops, let's just talk countertops for a long time.

I want to say a long time.

For 20 years.

I've been 95.

Let's go way back because I actually have my price a long time ago, but I was 95 pretty much from the beginning, 95 bucks a square foot.

This was 2004, right?

44:17

So 95 a square foot.

And I was there for a long, long time and then I went up to one 35150.

Anymore, me personally, 2020, four 175 to 195 is my starting price.

And what determines that cost is the design, the color.

44:34

You know, I do countertops still.

I don't do a whole lot of kitchen countertops, but I do reception counters.

I do, let's say like slab goods like desks or tables.

I do a lot of that still and I'm going to be in the 175 to 195 price point per square foot for those types of goods And and I think that's a completely fair price.

44:57

When you put in the amount of time it takes to aid, deal with the client, generate shop drawings, submit colour samples, get approval, then build the mold, mix the concrete, cast concrete, cure it, process it, seal it, create it, I'm creating everything, if not then doing the delivery but creating it, shipping it and it's all handmade.

45:21

That's a completely, completely fair price point and I don't get very much push back at that price point.

Most of the clients that contact me and I give them a quote that's in that range, say yes, price that that's a reasonable price to them as well.

They don't think that that's that that's abnormal or or too high things beyond there.

45:42

You know I talked about I did a fireplace project not too long ago that I shipped.

I'm, I'm not trying to brag.

So they don't take this as like bragging, but that fireplace project was $54,000 for that project.

But it was a ton of time.

It was a ton of time to make that project.

46:00

There was just a lot of complexities.

The forms are complex.

There was just a lot that went into it.

Not counting probably the 40 to 60 hours and back and forth on the shop shrines in the beginning of the project that I didn't account for any of that time as far as being compensated for.

So if you add and it literally was probably between 40 and 60 hours because there were so many iterations of the shop drawings that I'd generate, submit and then they would change something, they'd want me to redraw it.

46:25

I'd say just redline and I go oh, can you draw it again and and resubmit it said go back in redraw it, resubmit it, you know, then the builders say, Oh no, we had, we we changed this whatever we need to shorten it to this.

Can you redraw it like Oh my God, that went on and on and on and on.

46:41

But then once it was done, it was still, it was like for that project I used something like 2020 some sheets of melamine to make the all the parts for that, you know, when it's all said and done because I made these massive molds and I made the backer molds, but it was just a ton of work.

46:58

So when somebody's like oh $54,000 for fireplace, I'm not getting rich, you know, I mean I I was profitable, yes.

But it wasn't obscene for the amount that went into it, I guess is the way to put it.

That's kind of my my perspective on pricing for countertops and then just kind of talking about other goods, how they can be much higher, but it's all relative to the amount of time you put into it.

47:22

What are your thoughts?

That's a perfect.

Example knowing only because you got the materials, I'm going to take that to extreme.

And I'm rolling this.

Back into the other conversation. 54,000.

47:37

Dollar project, OK in that $54,000 project you used what, 2 pallets of mix, right?

Well.

I used, I used.

One pallet, not even a full pallet mix, OK.

But again, I'm going to.

Say 2 pallets just for this conversation I.

47:52

Didn't use two pallets I used.

I used less than a full pallet OK because I still have mix leftover from that Project 50. 6 bags.

If someone told you that to make your life easier, they would save you $168 in materials.

48:16

It's not just curious.

How that would have?

Made not a.

Project.

In the.

Bucket because this project was SEC poured down into thin verticals that had these these tall edges and there was so little air that had to be remedied even.

48:34

And this was probably I don't know how many podcasts back 10 podcasts back.

I talked about this project when we were doing it but there was I I didn't even want a chance jiggling the forms at all to get some air out that's trapped like underneath a section.

And I knew there's going to be some air out after resolve.

48:50

Like I knew because I'm not giving it any type of agitation whatsoever that there's going to be some air pockets after resolve.

But it was still so minimal with with no agitation.

Just pouring it in and just letting it be.

It was so minimal that if I went back in time and I used the the old generation of products I used to use and I saved 168 bucks the amount of time and labour on the back end, I guarantee you it would have been another at least week, at least a week if not more, because these were big pieces.

49:21

So let's let's just say 40 hours.

So 40 hours of my time.

And I actually had to have an employee help me with this.

I had Aiden come up to help me because these pieces were so big and heavy, I couldn't do it by myself.

So that's two employees.

So let's say 80 hours because there's going to be two people in my shop.

So 168 / 80, that's saving me $2.00 an hour.

49:40

That's that's if that's if my time's not worth anything, $2.00 an hour is what is what it's going to save me two bucks an hour and people like, but my time's not worth anything.

It's worth 20 bucks.

OK, let's say it's worth 20 bucks.

Let's just say because I'm paying.

I'm.

I was paying Aiden like 34 an hour.

49:56

I want to say when he was here.

But let's say let's say my time's worth 20 and Aiden's worth 34.

OK, so 54.

So 54.

That's still. 2000 dollars $2000 to save 168, but I'm still upside down $2000.

50:15

Well, that's.

Again, that's all I was trying to get in this, this first half of our podcast is so much of these conversations is about the perspective or yeah, perspective the person's coming from and I don't know, materials providers, I totally understand it.

50:34

And you know, their their idea is to help get you them, you know, make a buck, a bag, buck a bag, last two bucks, 3 bucks, whatever the case may be.

But at the end of the day, that's not what we fight.

I mean that's not the concern.

50:49

I'll be honest with that's not the concern in my shop, anybody's shop, that's.

Actually anybody that's actually running a a viable business, $2.00 a bag, $3 a bag, $10 a bag does make makes 0 difference, makes 0 difference.

And some of the big companies, we've landed some big contracts with some companies that they were very hesitant because they were so focused on that.

51:11

But now that they've switched, that's the feedback we've gotten from the people in the shop that actually run the shops and cast the concrete is, Oh my God, the amount of time savings that we've had in making the switch.

It you know the owner of the company like the the one company.

51:26

Their breakage rate went down.

So they they had like about a 30% breakage rate and then that breakage rank is nearly at 0.

So all in any breakage was costing them money and you know, so that's all off the air holes, the slurring.

The water polishing, all the stuff that you used to have to do, they don't do anymore.

51:43

But the owner of the company, the one that we're talking about right now, he was very, very price conscientious conscious.

That's all he focused on, was the price he was so, so, so price worth.

You want to make the switch, but he's so price Ware and now they've made the switch because you talk to the shop manager, he's like Jon, it's so much better, so much better from the, from the people are actually in the shop working how much time they're saving for everybody.

52:07

Yeah, exactly.

So sometimes it just takes, it takes that as well.

But you know, we got off, we went back to the previous conversation.

But what are your thoughts as far as pricing goes, not materials, but just pricing where where do you.

You're in California, where do you think's a reasonable price point for somebody that's when you were the industry that's saying, hey, I don't know where to even start on price and this kind of stuff.

52:27

What do you think is fair?

Well, again, that's it's.

Just so wide, what's the project?

So for me, the only thing I can go by is my experience with vanities.

Vanities I'm at.

But I guess if.

You did a square foot price.

Hang on, let me grab a calculator.

I'm just going by the last one I just did.

52:50

OK.

So it's about 9 square feet.

Well, if I say this number, people are like, what?

So that was $355 a square foot.

That's totally fine.

That's totally reasonable.

Completely reasonable.

I agree with you.

I I mean, the way I looked at it is and I didn't look at it, I've just presented it to the client to to for what she wanted and the look that she wanted.

53:12

It's not a huge piece, you know, just over 4 foot vanity with a it just is.

And at the end of the day for the time to meet, to put in it, to form it up, you know, cast it, finish it, cure it, seal it or you know, process it, seal it and deliver it.

53:32

I know that that to me was a fair price and they thought so as well.

So, but can I, can I say someone's going to jump right in there at, you know, $300.00 a square foot is a launching pad to begin with?

Well, that's difficult to me.

What I guess what I'm saying, if I took that same project and said, you know what would that be 100 bucks that you know, $900.

53:54

If I did 100 bucks a square foot, I think I'd be upside down.

You know what I mean?

I mean, I just don't, I don't see viably doing that for $900, not because of the, gosh, what is that $150.00 in in raw materials?

54:12

No, it's just my time.

I mean, if I go in there, whatever, maybe it takes me a couple hours to form up.

But it's not just that.

This is the stuff that people.

It might only take me a couple hours to form up.

But again, I'm going to walk out of that shop.

I probably won't be back till the next day, you know, And then that's when I cast and mix and and boom, so that I might only be in, you know, four or five hours that day.

54:36

But still, my shop doesn't quit being paid.

You know when I cover it up and I walk away.

So, I mean, I kind of engulf it all as kind of, I said way back in some early podcast, I kind of use a mathematical way of coming up with my numbers, and that's including my overheads.

54:55

And you know, anyway, blah blah blah blah blah to come up with a general either hourly, daily or hourly kind of thing.

And at the end of the day, if if to cover all my expenses is whatever, $800 a day.

Well, if that took me 3 days, that's, you know, that's a $2400 vanity.

55:12

That's just the way it is and it's just to cover your expenses.

You're not putting anything away for a rainy day.

You know it's it's, it's one of the things that people find out pretty quick.

You know that's why the the attrition rate in this industry is as high as it is upwards of 90%.

55:29

The churn rate is so high in this industry because people completely underestimate what they should be charging to be profitable.

They charge, yeah.

They charge what they think is.

Fair.

You know, if if I was building a house and I wanted to have a fireplace around, now it's a huge fireplace around for this, for this house.

55:50

But it if I wanted to have a fireplace around and I contacted a local concrete company and they quoted me at $54,000, there's no way, there's no way that I would pay that.

But that's me.

That's my reality.

That's where I'm at.

And that's not a reasonable price for me.

56:06

But I can't base my price on what's reasonable to me when I need to be a profitable business.

So what is reasonable to me?

I talk about I did a desk for a guy a long time ago, It was $13,000 desk, which I thought was the most insane number.

56:22

You know, I did the math.

That's what it came to.

And I I gave him the price and I didn't hear from the client for a long time, like 6 months or so.

And then I got a e-mail like, hey, we, the client wants to move forward.

Do we send you a check?

You know, bank transfer, How do you want the deposit?

And I thought that was crazy, but then when I actually did it, I ended up putting about three times the amount of time into it that I anticipated.

56:43

And actually, I wouldn't say I lost money, but I definitely didn't make any money, right.

At the end of the day, that project I broke even.

Or I possibly lost some money on that project.

But at that price point, 13,000, I would never ever dream of spending $13,000 for a little desk.

56:59

For me.

That seems nuts, but what I really should have charged would have been probably double or triple that to be profitable for the amount of time that it took to make it.

Because I I underestimated the amount of time it would take.

But had I charged, let's say $40,000, that would have been a crazy number.

57:15

But at that number, with the amount of time I had into it, I would have actually turned a profit and it had been worth the time that I, I I spent on it.

But you know, this is the lesson that many, including me, learn and have learned.

Some of us learn the lesson and make adjustments.

57:32

Some of us don't.

And the ones that don't are the ones that ultimately just find out, hey, I can't do this and be profitable.

And if you can't do this and be profitable, you're not going to do it for very long.

You're going to have to switch, switch gears and do something else.

So you know, it's something that we we all have to figure out pretty quickly, otherwise it's not going to last very long, correct. 100% agree.

57:52

Yeah.

How long we been going 'cause I did have, which I can wait till the next podcast.

What do you got?

I I had a question.

Well, one of the questions I've gotten many times is if you're doing a SCC poor, what are some what would be some methods to create or let's say to how do.

58:14

I'm trying to paraphrase the question, but how to make it easier on you.

As an example, we have a guy named Dale who's doing a 600 LB cast.

I thought you were going.

To run this question by to see if we have time.

But now you're just going to go right into the answer, huh?

Right.

OK, Well, no, no, I'm.

Not going to give the answer, I'm going to say.

58:30

So doing it that way.

He had buckets, he had all these kind of things.

But more than that, it's one thing to mix the materials up.

Are there methods to placing the materials?

That helps it be.

Easier and faster in the casting method, yes.

58:49

Jon there are Joe Bates is a great example.

His what he calls the coffin.

It's just this coffin shaped box with the chute on it where he fills it up the SEC and takes it over the form or the forklift and then you know hovers over the form and opens up the the chute and lets the mix drain out as he moves the forklift and fills up the form.

59:07

That's one way, you know, simple things like essentially just shop built funnels that help direct the mix into the edge.

So you're not fighting, trying to get the mix support off you there, buddy?

No.

You didn't.

I'm still here.

I'm still here, Jon.

Oh, I got the boop boop.

59:23

No, that's on your side.

It's.

On me, it's me or you.

It's totally you.

But anyways, you shot built funnels that help you get the mix into a thin edge that can save you a lot of time.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

Funnel.

Make it a lot faster.

Make it a lot easier.

Make it a lot cleaner so you're not tripping all down the edges.

Yep.

And then there's other methods.

59:39

It kind of goes back to my old school way when I was pumping mix into a form.

But if you can get the mix into a tube and there's different ways to do that.

But if you get to mix into a tube and direct that tube down into the form and pull the tube up and out as you fill it up, that's bottom up pumping.

59:57

If you're able to do that, then that can help the process as well.

It doesn't necessarily with maker mix make a tremendous difference in the in the surface quality because there's so little air to begin with in the surface.

But what it does do is it can help.

Prevent any streaking from the mix running down the edges and drying.

1:00:16

So if you're pouring something and it's a big piece and it's running down the edge and because of your shop conditions, that mix is drying on the surface, which happens sometimes in summertime and it's, you know, you got fans on and it's blowing across a piece, then that can create some discoloration in your finished piece because that mix dried and then you know it was on the surface.

1:00:37

So if you're able to direct the mix to the bottom and then pull that hose up as you fill it up, then you don't have any of that mix running down the edge and end up with a perfect, perfect, perfect cast.

Again, little tips and tricks.

Tips and tricks.

Well, that's what.

Yeah, I was just going.

To add some kind of same thing.

Funnel, yeah, because in this case.

1:00:55

If you're casting.

Something again, 3 dimensional shape maybe.

Again, maybe a vessel sink, whatever we're talking about here.

And you're solely trying to pour it out of the five gallon bucket or whatever size bucket.

You have that amount of material in the bucket and you standing there for the time it takes you to pour it.

1:01:16

There's no more material coming.

And I just want to throw that out there.

It's just so coming up with a funnel process allows the caster to basically you dump the bucket in the funnel and while it's slowly you're running back for or, you know, getting more material, boom, boom, boom.

1:01:33

And it allows the cast to be much more efficient with no downtime than just pouring out of buckets.

Yeah, makes sense.

So if you have a.

So you're saying like essentially a big funnel that you feed the funnel and that funnel's directing to mix in, but kind of at a meter grade, it's not just you know, so it's, it's necked down to a A size where it's feeding it in at A at a meter grade and you're just keeping that funnel full and so instead of and I didn't say that I think.

1:02:00

That's one of the small tips.

I know I made mistakes early on, maybe not mistakes, but had not experienced enough to realize that.

What I used to try to do is, you know, pour the bucket down my three quarter inch slot, right, or my one inch slot.

1:02:16

And while I'm holding that 5 gallon bucket, slowly pouring down, it was just like, well, wait a minute man, if I had made a, you know, let's say a 2 foot funnel, you know what I mean?

Then I could, instead of me standing there slowly coming out the edge of my bucket, I'd be pouring it down that funnel and then going back for much for more material and loading the funnel much quicker and more efficiently and more materials dropping in more efficiently into my form than me standing there just trying to drop material out of the edge of the bucket, if that makes sense.

1:02:52

Makes total.

Sense.

Yeah.

And.

That's what I've seen a lot of the guys implore even when doing like their vessel sinks is again in this case a funnel.

And that way they can keep feeding that funnels being fed much more efficiently than them trying to pour out of that, you know the whatever the tip edge of a bucket much, much better.

1:03:13

And the other benefit is?

It prevents the cold joints which we've all had occur.

If you're if you're pouring SEC, you pour in your 5 gallon bucket and you go back over to the mixer and you fill it back up.

But in that time frame, this little, this little line forms, you know, because of mix sitting there for whatever, how many minutes, 3 minutes, 5 minutes.

1:03:31

And you come in, you pour another layer and it fills up to a certain level and then it sits there for three to 5 minutes while you're getting more mixed and come over and you pour another layer.

And then when you demolt it, you'll see like these little lines, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

And for some people, I think of Michael Carmen D, he embraces that he likes those lines.

1:03:48

He, you know, it's part of the process, artifact of the process.

He likes those lines.

But for other clients and other projects, maybe you don't want that.

And that would be, again, we're a funnel that you're just keeping full and you're letting it just meter the mix in.

You would prevent that from happening.

So yeah, and in this.

1:04:05

Case yeah, if you had multiple mixes going or whatever the case may be, you know those funnels keep dropping in, you're already off getting on more materials ready.

And you know again, especially if you're a one man show, one man trying to, you know, tip out the edge of a 5 gallon bucket versus you're really trying to do the work of three or four people.

1:04:25

So having a funnel kind of arrangement makes the whole thing more efficient.

Totally.

All right.

Well, let's get.

On to the end of this concrete Heroes quest, May 1st through 3rd.

I think we're past the halfway point for class registration, so it's starting to get full.

1:04:43

A lot of people have hit us up wanting to know if there's still space.

Yes, there's still space, but it's starting to get tighter.

So if you're wanting to register for that May 1st through 3rd Napa, CA, we're going to be doing advanced forum building at Ramm-crete.

Go to concretedesignschool.com, you can read more about it.

You can register.

1:05:00

May 1st through. 3rd The next one is going to be the fabric forming concrete sink and GFRC workshop here in Kansas.

That one is June 21st through 23rd.

That's going to be on how to make a fabric form sink and a GFRC mix to pour that sink.

1:05:15

That's a class I've been teaching for a lot of years now.

It's a fun class.

It's been a few years since I've taught it Again, that one is starting to fill up.

So that's going to be a fun class furniture design workshop.

We're going to design furniture pieces and make them in the class August 16th through 18th here in Kansas.

1:05:31

And then the last class we have scheduled is the basics are Fundamental Concrete Workshop, September 28th and September 29th here in Kansas.

And all these you can go to concretedesignschool.com to register for.

I had a guy hit me up, he was trying to register yesterday for the fabric forming class and PayPal is the gateway we use for that website.

1:05:51

And he was confused because he thought, you know, he's like, I don't want to use PayPal, I want to use my credit card.

I'm pretty sure you can still use your credit card, because most people do.

But if for some reason you're trying to register for a class and you're having a hard time with that payment gateway, hit me up and I'll just process it manually.

But yeah, so concrete designschool.com for that.

1:06:09

Anything else, Jon?

No.

That's it for today.

Man, that's awesome.

All right, well, I got to get to.

Work.

It's good talking to you.

Good talking to you.

Until next time.

Adios, amigo, adios.

 

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